Ok ... (the insanity of car auctions.)

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Wow, 1 of 13 with a proven racing heritage, driven by the original Ferrari driver. There was a recent 'well maintained/repaired' one on BAT a while back for ~2.2 million, but I don't think it had this one's heritage.

This would be like finding Buzz' Speedmaster smashed to little pieces.
 
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I suspect that if a flight-worn Apollo Speedmaster came up for auction in very poor condition (rusted movement, overpolished case, missing bezel, etc.), it would still auction for a lot of money because you can repair a lot of things and you'll still have provenance.
 
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Exactly. And recreating the car will not cost 2 mio
 
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That must be the ultimate barn find -quite literally.
What does « VIN tag » mean? I know nothing about cars.
 
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That must be the ultimate barn find -quite literally.
What does « VIN tag » mean? I know nothing about cars.
Vehicle identification number (nowadays it contains 17 digits with the 1st indicating country of origin/production, 10th letter indicating modelyear and last 6 are only no's).
 
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Vehicle identification number (nowadays it contains 17 digits with the 1st indicating country of origin/production, 10th letter indicating modelyear and last 6 are only no's).

As I also know nothing about car auctions, is that the horological equivalent of switching out a Omega serial plate into another movement?

In car land, that's all kosher?
 
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As I also know nothing about car auctions, is that the horological equivalent of switching out a Omega serial plate into another movement?

In car land, that's all kosher?
I think it's comparable yes, I only deal with new cars that have the VIN also stamped in the chassis, so there's a lot to do to get away with it.
 
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That must be the ultimate barn find -quite literally.
What does « VIN tag » mean? I know nothing about cars.
Its the "ID" of the car and what proves it is what it is.

So in this case if a car is built around the VIN plate or where ever it is stamped on the frame, then that car is considered fully legit. So this car would be eligible for vintage racing, entry to the Mille Miglia, and just generally worth what these are worth which was in 2019 3.7m pounds uk.

The tipo 110 engine is somewhat easy to source as lots of spares where made for Formula 2 racing where that engine dominated, the rest ishand made body and off the shelf parts. figure 1.5-2 million USD to build the car around what is left of the frame, and in todays market you have a great vintage racer that can be used by mortals and would sell north of 4 million US right now.

I would say it was a fair price for all in all for both parties.
 
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Wow. Would they be able to restore the frame so that at least part of the original car - aside from that plate— still survives in the new car? If the plate is the only subsisting element it would all seem a bit like a fallacy.
 
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It’s a fluid world in vintage, high-end cars.The plate is sacrosanct. Cassis numbers can be faked, not that this is going to happen here. People that love this stuff and spend $2m are also v protective of the provenance of a car, so I’m sure that as much of this original that can be saved will be saved. Switching plates, forging numbers, making claims is pretty tough to do w top-notch cars in the internet age. Tho’ none other than Jay Leno was recently in an awful situation; I can’t recall how his Porsche sale was “resolved,” but it cost someone a boatload of money I’m sure.
 
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Wow. Would they be able to restore the frame so that at least part of the original car - aside from that plate— still survives in the new car? If the plate is the only subsisting element it would all seem a bit like a fallacy.
Welcome to ex-race cars and old Ferrari's.

It stems from racing, a race car could be crashed and rebuilt repeatedly and almost everything swaped out. Heck in a season the engine, brakes, transmission, body, and wiring would be replaced if needed, so the frame and the identification on the frame (vin tag) are what denote the car is the car that it is. There are also a few examples of multiple cars having the same VIN out there for Ferrari's due to this process....
 
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It’s a fluid world in vintage, high-end cars.The plate is sacrosanct. Cassis numbers can be faked, not that this is going to happen here. People that love this stuff and spend $2m are also v protective of the provenance of a car, so I’m sure that as much of this original that can be saved will be saved. Switching plates, forging numbers, making claims is pretty tough to do w top-notch cars in the internet age. Tho’ none other than Jay Leno was recently in an awful situation; I can’t recall how his Porsche sale was “resolved,” but it cost someone a boatload of money I’m sure.
It was Jerry Sienfeld, and sold via European Collectables which is down the street from me. Turns out that when you start applying Ferrari rules to Porsches people get upset. Porsche blessed the car but my intel was that there was an issue with the engine not being the original engine and not disclosed it was an in-period replacement or something similar. Everything got sealed and was settled out of court. I was literally talking with their sales manager two weeks ago and decided not to bring it up lol.
 
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Burnt-out shell of 1954 Ferrari fetches $2m at auction

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66563807


puts a new perspective on that burned out flightmaster
Looks like it was a bargain. If I had the $3M (three), would have like to have bought it.

This is just like warplanes. The real value is in the VIN or data plate. The car can be completely rebuilt by Ferrari and registered as that vin just like an aircraft can be registered with these.
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Yeah, some racing cars are very much like Trigger's broom...

I've just spent the last few months researching the history and provenance of an ex-Howard Cole Superstox, and when you put all the photographs I managed to pull out of various archives in chronological order, it's bonkers how much the car changed in its nearly 20-year racing career prior to being dumped in a barn and abandoned. It's currently undergoing a full restoration with an aim to return it to its original specifications.

The trouble with the short oval cars of 40-ish years ago, is that they were largely self-built with no traceable identification like what you got if you bought a Reynard or a Van Diemen say, in order to race on the circuits. So it's much harder to establish provenance, especially since these cars tended to go through the hands of multiple owners.

Having said that, Ferraris are a law unto themselves. Not my area of expertise though.

FWIW there's a Jaguar XJR-14 that's been up for sale recently, put together (mostly) from the parts left lying around when TWR pulled out of sportscar racing at the tail end of 1991. And likewise, there's a V16 BRM "remake" built from the original blueprints. Where these fall on the spectrum is up for debate. But never mind that, the howl from that 1.5 litre V16 engine just has to be experienced. (Owwww, my ears!!!)
 
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Yeah, some racing cars are very much like Trigger's broom...

I've just spent the last few months researching the history and provenance of an ex-Howard Cole Superstox, and when you put all the photographs I managed to pull out of various archives in chronological order, it's bonkers how much the car changed in its nearly 20-year racing career prior to being dumped in a barn and abandoned. It's currently undergoing a full restoration with an aim to return it to its original specifications.

The trouble with the short oval cars of 40-ish years ago, is that they were largely self-built with no traceable identification like what you got if you bought a Reynard or a Van Diemen say, in order to race on the circuits. So it's much harder to establish provenance, especially since these cars tended to go through the hands of multiple owners.

Having said that, Ferraris are a law unto themselves. Not my area of expertise though.

FWIW there's a Jaguar XJR-14 that's been up for sale recently, put together (mostly) from the parts left lying around when TWR pulled out of sportscar racing at the tail end of 1991. And likewise, there's a V16 BRM "remake" built from the original blueprints. Where these fall on the spectrum is up for debate. But never mind that, the howl from that 1.5 litre V16 engine just has to be experienced. (Owwww, my ears!!!)

So I was chatting with a vintage F1 car collector as one does…

they look at photographs of the roll hoop welds as those don’t change and as they are mostly hand built these can be finger prints for vintage F1.

anything similar for those short oval cars?