Hi Guys,
I only found this Forum yesterday (why Omega????) and couldn't find anything like this when I was looking for a Universal Tri-Compax.
WatchProSite (which I read for my Pateks and Rolex) doesn't have a section for Universal so I assumed it was a brand without much 'profile'....
I downloaded and read the Timepiece Chronicle Reference Guides to Universal Tricompax 1959-1959 and the Tick Tock Fever Review of the Tri-Compax from 1946 and thus armed, I began searching Chronos24 and eBay.
I finally found a Tri-Compax (Ref No. 12284) I liked on Chronos24 from Watches & Jewellery of Bond Street (www.watchcentre.com) and after some frustrating communications.....I bought it....!!
It's now at Customs in Sydney and will be delivered in two days.....

So whilst I'm waiting....I Google 'Universal Watch Forums' and stumble on you guys.....
And horror of horrors.......'fake' watch dials and flagrant subterfuge in the Universal Vintage Watch Market...
Now I knew about the dangers in the Rolex market where hands and dials can be added and changed so that professionals can hardly tell the 'real' from the 'fakes'......but there is no such thing I know of in the Patek Philippe market. And surely if one were going to 'fake' a watch....wouldn't it be more worthwhile to do it with a $100,000 brand rather than a $7,000 one?

So once I read the horror stories contained in the 'Universal Watches on Ebay' Thread here......I double-checked the vision of the dial I have bought to the one contained in the Timepiece Chronicle Guide for Ref 12285 (which I had checked before purchasing) in light of what I now knew and sure enough........it's a 'redial'
I knew the 'pushers' were unlike any I had seen on Universals....but I had also read that Universal liked to change things and mix and match so to speak.....and I kind of liked these pushers over the rectangular sharp ones (although my initial preference was for the circular 'mushroom'? pushers).
OK.....please don't tell me I got what I deserve
I feel stupid enough as it is.....

So now I'm terrified what I may find INSIDE and on the BACKFACE as despite requesting photos over many days....The Watchcentre kept giving excuses for the delays and I eventually relented .
Armed with their 1 year Warranty and their Guarantee of Authenticity


.....do you guys believe I have a chance of getting my money back...?

 

Guarantee of Authenticity should have what you need for a claim.
Unless the listing had refurbished or refinished dial.

Just looking at all the 5s on the out side of the dial didn't give you reason to be sceptical.

 

Do you have a link to the original listing? Depending what it says there you may have a way out.

 

Send it back for a full refund. UG is a nightmare for the noob buyer.

 

Redials are a collectors worst nightmare.

If you paid with a credit card, don't accept delivery and work with your credit card company and the seller to get a refund. If you have wired money, work with seller.

 

if is this one https://www.watchcentre.com/product...r-dial-tri-compax-calendar-chrono-12253/13801 then the listing does not say anything about the dial being original-so technically, there's no claim to be made in that respect, I have no expertise in legal matters but think the only claim the OP would have is if the watch is not authentic... perhaps the merchant is kind enough to accept the return..

 

You should ask the seller for a return. He would probably accept !

 

Why not just return it?

https://www.watchcentre.com/returns

 

reads like a very customer-friendly retun policy to me, now OP must test the policy and come back and tell us how it turned out!

 

What is up with those pushers too btw?

 

It's a prototype !

 

I don't think that the fact it does not state that dial is original is a valid reason for refusing a return. Regardless, when purchasing from a retail outlet or business, the law states that there must be a no quibble send back for full refund if not satisfied on all transactions and purchases. Send it back ...

 

Same here in France and maybe in Europe. You have 15 days to return the product in the orignal condition, with full refund.

 

Thanks for the responses guys...especially gop76 who points out the 'Return Policy' actually written by the Merchant,
Because I was shocked when I read about these 'redial' issues with Universals.......may I ask why there is such antipathy to a redial?
Rolex Service Outlets have been replacing dials for decades when required and Patek will replace (and build) a completely new dial for their vintage watches in Geneva, if the original is damaged beyond repair and the issue never even comes up let alone affecting the value.....?
With Pateks...the value is in the movement and complications.......

What would happen in the past if one owned a 1940s or 1950s Universal Tri-Compax and had an accident in the 60s that broke the glass and damaged the dial?
Surely the factory would offer a redial service, and if there were a gap of 10 years between manufacture and 'dial replacement'.....could not the new dial be slightly different from the original?
Perhaps some of you would know the history of who made the dials for Universal and 'how' and 'when' they changed or were modified?


Here is a direct comparison with the dial of the 12284 I've bought and the 12285 as shown in the 'Timepiece Chronicle Reference Guides to Universal Tricompax 1959-1959'.
I personally don't think it's an offensive redial.....
My main complaint would be how the numbering of the 'Date' and the numbering from '20' to '40' minutes around the face don't invert as on the original.
But is this really a 'deal breaker'......?

 

That is for you to decide.
Of you are happy with the watch the way it is, and feel like you got it at a fair price, then by all means keep it and enjoy it!
If there is any chance you might be bothered by the redial in the future, return it.
This is a personal choice that you should make. For me, I would always be annoyed by this redial, and it would severely detract from the enjoyment of owning and wearing a watch like this.

 

As @Timmert said, it would be for you to decide. Might also depend on the reason for your purchase. If it is to re-sell in future, the original dial will be important. If it is to wear and enjoy, IMO the te-dial looks better. The way the feet of the date and scale are all turned inwards looks great (reminds me of first Speedymoon) and the sub-registers looks less cluttered.

 

Return this for sure! Redial, wrong crown, pushers, case looks funky and polished, sorry to say but you should try returning or not accepting delivery. Ug is very very tough for even an educated buyer! As for Patek, yes the money is in the movements and complications, but first and foremost to any big collector, conditions of everything is key. To be the top of the top in investments, the condition has to be consistent throughout. If a dial is touched, cleaned, relumed, crown changed, pushers changed etc is an immediate no go for any seasoned collector, aka the person you'll eventually hope to sell an investment piece to. If you're just having fun with it that's another story, but at the price you paid, I'd find a good one!

 

um, no. Any vintage watch that does not have the original dial will be worth less than one with the original dial.
The question for you is does it matter?...if it doesnt then dont worry about it and enjoy the watch. But if you are concerned about resale value, or simply being able to easily resell the watch later... anytime the dial is replaced it will affect both.
It doesnt matter if its a Rolex, a Patek, Omega or a UG...its a universal issue.

why there is such antipathy to a redial...simple. Value is generally placed on complete originality. Even a replaced service dial, despite being 100% authentic will decrease value.

IMO I would rather have the original dial with all the aging that comes with 50 years of use, than a mint and perfect service dial...and the market pretty much validates this. YMMV...so ignore the market and do what you want.

 

It gets delivered today and I was wanting to open it and inspect and photograph the movement.
Is there a seal I need to worry about and will I be able to re-press the back on with my fingers or is it best to have a watchmaker do it in a watch-press?