What an awesome initiative.

Hopefully you will recover soon @watchdaddy1

 

Point taken- my second post deleted

 

Done

 

Ditto...

 

Negotiating the bills is defiantly worth a shot. Very recently a friend fell down the stairs and fractured his skull. Part of his treatment was "out of network" and not covered by his insurance and he was left with two gigantic bills. He was able to get one of them reduced by 15% after some emails back and forth.

Best of luck and well wishes for a full and speedy recovery.

 

Bump ... pretty far from the goal still.

 

I am not very proficient with the subtleties of IG, and usually just post a photo of a watch and a few words to describe it, but I know there are other things, like tags, stories, etc., so I suspect that there are ways to publicize the GFM page on that platform. Would the best approach simply be to include the link and a brief description in a post?

 

I put the appeal out again- if anyone has any experience with negotiating medical debt or navigating the legalities of the medical system (not in theory or “I had a cousins- brother’s- aunt who”, please reach out the Bill.
Anyone in his situation is blindly signing documents and putting things into play that 99% of the population wouldn’t be able to understand, even reading the fine print. He needs counsel more than anything I would think at this point.

 

919 views ... just a fraction donated. At risk of making this sound like a public radio pledge drive.... doesn’t have to be a lot .. every donation helps. This incident is going to generate a blizzard of bills.......

 

And I also want to share what kind of guy he is and why I took this on-
I have never met Bill, just forum chat here. I was in conversation with him about buying a $50 strap he had in the FS section. I paid him and he went dark for about 12 hours- then I got a PM from his wife- he was in the hospital and he was concerned about getting my strap in the mail. Yeah, from his hospital bed he was trying to make sure I was taken care of....that’s what kind of guy he is. I told him to forget it, ship it whenever, the strap is no big deal.

He had his wife pack and ship it....and he’s still in the hospital. I think that’s just nuts, but to Bill that’s honor, and for that I rally to his support.

 

I agree Larry- and I’m about to sound like Sally Struthers here:
I believe in Karma, we get back what we put out in the world. I was serious about the cost of a strap. Every member on this forum can buy a nice strap- just skip one this week and send the money to the GFM account....or buy the strap and send the amount of a second strap to Bill’s account....we never just buy one strap.

 

I think this is a great idea. In fact, if anyone here has purchased a strap or watch from Bill, post that on IG with a quick summary of his story and the link to the GFM account.

 

To re-address the OPs question RE negotiation...

Hard to give more specific advice at this stage in the game other than being persistent; there are several patient advocacy organisations (eg https://www.patientadvocate.org) that do just this but it will take legwork by him or his family to do so.

He will receive bills from private entities (comprised of physicians and ancillary providers) as well as institutions/organizations. The private entities (physician groups, rehab facilities) will likely have billing / collections companies that are separate from the actual providers...he will likely have to start negotiation with them but if that fails he should contact the providers' business managers or equivalent. The larger institutions (eg. hospitals) will likely have their own billing department and have more established protocol for negotiating with uninsured patients. It may be an uphill battle but it is definitely worth fighting.

Medical practices--both private and NFP hospitals/institutions--have "artificially inflated" prices because reimbursement is fixed by CMS and negotiated with private insurers [and because our damn administrative costs in the US are waaaay to high]. Being part of a collection of insured persons gives one better leverage. [Example: I had my appendix taken out ~2 yrs ago. "Sticker price" for everything including radiology, surgeon, OR time, etc, was $26,000. That's an absurd amount, and everyone would agree, but my insurance company negotiated that down to $6000 based on pre-determined rates--which is reasonable IMO, especially considering I presented at 2pm on a Monday and was back in home by 9pm...start to finish 7 hours. How close $6k was to the actual cost is hard to tell but the number reflects a negotiated rate based on all other health care provided to other insured persons in my organization.]

From a provider's perspective.... What I "charge" is not my direct "cost" to provide every specific service; it reflects overhead, areas where I'm destined to lose money, and what CMS has determined various diagnoses are "worth" based on the categorization of the procedure. Whether it takes me 5 seconds to diagnose an seborrheic keratosis or 45 min to work up a huge excision for melanoma, it's still a "biopsy/excision" by a dermatologist or surgeon and I get paid the same. I might charge $180 for each case but they're in the same govt mandated diagnosis category, and the government sets the floor on what such categories are "worth". Currently that's about $30--whether it's a complicated melanoma case or benign solar damage. The overwhelming majority of my cases are medicare or private insurance, but we do occasionally encounter uninsured patients and work with them to find a solution.

Private insurance is going to pay a certain % more than medicare (and based on the region of the country, affiliations and relationship with insurers, those rates vary), and it's relied upon heavily by practitioners to offset the disparity of reimbursement from medicare and medicare (govt funded), which generally fall short of covering costs, and areas that are destined to lose money/break even.

I'll stop there; huge topic and invokes lots of emotions and opinions, but it is what it is right now and I wish Bill a speedy recovery.

Great his friends & acquaintances on OF can make an impact.

 

Thanks for that incredible inside insight from a professional within the system @JPE.88305 ! I agree, heavy emotion and political opinions involved- but the reality is that when the the dust settles, and even with the best negotions possible, Bill is in for some serious financial hardship- and he knows it, and he’s clearly scared from the conversations I have had with him. It’s unfortunate that this kind of stressor is loaded on top of the primary stress of trying to recover from such a devastating accident.
So- call me Sally- our little contributions can help offset the costs of what Bill is in for and put food on the table while he is out of work recovering.

 

Done.

 

For those following this- please read my new post and weigh in

https://omegaforums.net/threads/bake-sale-for-bill.97399/

 

Done.

 

Good initiative and done To add one more story to highlight Bill's honor system, he once sent me a watch to see in person before I sent him a single dollar. Why? Because he thought I should see it in person before committing to a purchase. A real gentleman!

 

Hello gentleman it's William. I wanted to reach out and tell you ALL there's not enough words in my vocabulary to show my appreciation or describes my appreciation for all the love and support , the donations, the prayers the thoughts, the PMs, the emails. I appreciate it all more than any of you know.
My employer canceled our insurance at work to find a better coverage and pricing supposedly that's why I didn't have insurance at the time plus if I'm being honest my boss is a cheap ass.

Just to let you all know I am home now because of the no insurance I would have had to stay in the hospital until a charity Physical Therapy bed facility opened up for me now that could be couple hours or could be weeks to months well I can't afford the sit in the hospital for a week and months plus I'm a very physical guy so needless to say when the nurse and doctor came in to my room and I was walking around they were stunned so they figured I didn't need PT I could do it at my home by myself I'm still hurting I will be off work for a while but I'm alive and I'm home now.
Thank you all for everything some of these post brings tears to my eyes and it hurts crying when my lung is all messed up but again I appreciate everything you guys are doing for me it will never be forgotten.
The love and support from complete strangers baffles me sometimes I've always said this for years. I belong to every Forum there is, I've been around the forums for 12 to 13 years and it's definitely not just a watch it's definitely a family ,a community and for that I am eternally grateful

 

Best of luck, William. Glad to know you're up and about.