Hello all

I'm seeking advise as to what kind of Speedmaster I recently acquired. This is my first Omega watch and I'm not exactly sure what I have.

Upon first looks it was obviously a 321, I just wasn't sure if it was a 105.012 or a 145.012. Now that I cracked the case open I'm still not sure, it seems to be a hybrid of both. The serial # is for a 1966 105.012 (edited from 145.012-67 after forum members guided me to the newer serial #s). However, the case is stamped BOTH 105.012-66 and 145.012 SP. What is this deeply stamped 145.012 SP? I think the pushers are the longer (eyeballing it, no measurement)? And the T Swiss T leads me to believe it's a 105 dial? I'm just plain confused now.

Any and all advice is welcome and appreciated.

Thanks

 

321 movement 145.012. Some early watches in series can be double stamped if they have some caseback left over. SP means nothing it technically denotes improved water resistance on the case. All speedies of certain references have it. Someone with more experience might correct me on this as the 145.012 normally have the year stamp also.

The pushers do look to tall and are most likely a service replacement. The dial is not a 105.012, and appears correct for a 145.012. Your watch needs a service by a specialist and not by Omega. The dial and case seem to be very nice. The hands appear to also be replacements, but look good and I believe correct on a 145.022.

My guess is that it is an early 1966 145.012 serviced in the early to mid 70's and received new hands and pushers.

:edit:
it's narrow T doh! Not a 145.012

 

I read somewhere on here that the SP means that it came with a leather band instead of a bracelet. I'm trying to get it back to it's original state, do you think this should have come with the 1039 bracelet?

 

I assume that old 145.012 case was bad and they replaced cases and stamped old reference inside. probably dial was also better than old one, so they replace it to!

 

First off @Foo2rama is right SP donates increased case water resistance, not the strap type.

However, your dial with the narrow Ts is incorrect for a 145. These were phased out in 65 or early 66, so the last of the 105s had the wide T dial.

Then you have a chrono hand from 68 or later.

You say the serials correct for a 145.012. Is that just a guess or do you have an extract as it's also correct for an early 105.012-66 when the narrow T may still have been used.

If you don't already have it, you need an extract here. Best case scenario, you have a 105.012-66 which went back to omega for a service at some point where they put the more modern pushers on and stamped this upgrade in the back with anew ref no. I think this is the most likely answer.

Worst case, you have a complete Franken.

 

This thread says that SP refers to a strap:

BA Yellow gold
BC White gold
BG Pink gold
BT platinum
DA Yellow gold combination
DD gold combination
DG pink gold combination
DL gold combination
MD gold plated
SP Strap <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
ST Stainless steel
TA titanium and gold
TI titanium
TL titanium and pink gole
Y

 

Davidt... no extract from Omega, for the serial number I'm just going off the tables found on chronomaddox.

 

SP is something like Special Poussoirs for the increase water resistance attributed to the new pushers.

 

ChronoMaddox is an awesome site and was the first website a lot of us used on our Speedmaster journey. However, it's now been overtaken by MWO and SM101. You need an extract to see how best to proceed here.

 

Speedmaster101.com puts it in range for either a 105.012 or a 145.012. the 105.012 would not be marked SP, whereas the 145.012 should be marked SP. The narrow T swiss T appears correct for the 105.012, my bad... I made an error when I looked at the t's

As this watch has been serviced as shown by the hands, an extract of the archives would go along way to explain the dial and caseback markings. Although my theory which may or may not hold water is that it is an early 145.012 with some aspects of both. 145.012 was not a part number AFIAK and is not marked correctly for a 145.012 which leads me to believe that the CB was made for the 105.012 and restamped and this watch also got the earlier dial... Its not an issue like the 145.0022 casebacks. A boy can dream although the odds are low, but this serial number could show that as the cross over is there...

 

nice caliber condition. we have a lots of experts who can give you peace of mind.

 

This is uncommon but not unheard of - Omega restamping 105.012-66 case backs with 145.012-67 SP.

As I understand, The SP represents Special Poussoirs which means a slightly upgraded pusher to improve waterproofness - obviously not by much. So don't go swimming just because it has SP in the back - the speedmaster has so many other weaknesses in the water resistance area.

The double stamping of the backs is an accepted part of Omegas production methods - supporting to an extent the "they used what ever they had" theory, that I don't fully subscribe to, but in this case it certainly seems like they needed to use up the cases. I do assume they used the entire case.

What does make me think, is the serial, which is bang on for a 105.012-66 and also the short Swiss dial.

The most likely thing is that this is a 145.012-67, that has had work including a replaced dial at service.

I say this because I have never seen a confirmed Omega produced short space T dial on a late 105.012 (nor a 145.012)

 

Thanks! I'll check out those sites later today

 

Foo2rama... I have a few questions about the hands. Is it only the chrono second hand that's incorrect? And why would that part ever need to be replaced?... I can't see it wearing out or becoming damaged. I've found a few on eBay for around $80, right now the watch is at the watchmakers, ill have him replace it with the "boattail" (not flat) version of that's the correct one that should be on the watch?

 

They can be damaged during service when being removed.

 

Ahhhh.... That makes sense. Thanks.

 

Or the lume was dead and they replaced them with new hands. Tritium only lasts about 5 years if you want it to glow.

 

All the ones I see on ebay are the newer luminova variety. Would you guys advise replacing it with one of those? Do the original tritium ones ever show up for sale?

 

Yes, patience grasshopper

They show up. Do your research and take your time. Someone with more knowledge on the 321's should be able to tell you how to verify it's the right one. There are some that look similar but might be the wrong length. "321 speedmaster hands" would be the search term.