Hello everyone,

First of all thank you for this forum, I’ve learned so much reading you. Unfortunately I also realised I might have been fouled and spent £995 on a redialed (if not fake) Omega Pie Pan Constellation.

I bought it in a physical shop after the seller showed me a number of ways to recognise a genuine from a fake.
I was so tired and so excited to have found my other half finally the perfect present that I didn’t noticed the obvious (and I feel terrible as I’m a metrologist and a quality eng. so I should have an eye for detail).

I had it engraved (in a different shop) so I’m really worried the seller will use it to not take it back.

So, here’s the poor thing.

Strap obviously new.
I will add more pictures later.



I’m not a collector, nor is my partner, so if the movement is original and I send it to Omega for service could I have it redialed properly?

- Glass seems legit (has tiny omega engraving in the middle)
- So does the back, I’ll check better when I can open it later
- Star is not aligned
- MOY failed
- no lume on marks
- weird hour marks
- vertical crosshair misaligned (this is what is driving me insane at the moment)
- wrong font

... what else?

What are my rights as a buyer considering I had the back engraved?

 

It does look like a redial. If an original dual was promised by the seller, I would request a full refund. Given the engraving now done, I might settle for 1/3 back. When North America gets out of bed on Saturday, more help will come in.

 

Or even the UK might chip in....

Welcome @lisapan

You are correct that the dial has been repainted.
The watch doesn’t look to be a fake but we would need more images (especially sides and back ) to be sure.
Pics of the inner case back and movt would be useful too.

What else you ask?
I’m not even sure that the watch is a pie-pan - it looks to be a dome dial painted to look a bit like a pie pan.
The hands look to have black inserts but the indices have notches for lume.
If so, it’s possible they were replaced with short hands to (again) make it look like a pie-pan.
The lugs are really quite soft (I.e. rounded)
The crown is a replacement but probably the correct one.

All in all a bit of a pig in a poke I’m afraid and I would definitely return it if it was described as all original.
(Note: it is likely a genuine Connie but not original -a subtle, if mealy-mouthed, difference. )

However, since you have ‘damaged’ the watch (by engraving it) I think the seller will likely refuse to accept it back but you can always try.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but hope that helps.

 

Thank you very much, you confirmed my doubts

I’m on my way to the town, so I will not have the man around and then I’ll head to another seller, to open it and take some pictures.

Would eventually worth considering a better done redial by Omega?

There do exists some version of the Pie Pan with more rounded lugs, I think I read something about it on Desmond blog but take it with a pinch of salt as I heard about Consellations for the first time about 24 hours ago so basically I don’t know anything!

 

No once the dial has been redone there is no coming back. Omega will likely sell you something that fits but it won't look anything like a 1960s original, they don't have pie pan replacement dials. Yes the earlier lugs were rounded but those are worn dog leg lugs, not the earlier kind. That watch is not desirable to a collector but is at least genuine.

ps just noticed the bit about engraving, not good news, I can't see any seller being bound either morally or legally to accept a return after that. I think you will just have to use it and learn to love it for what it is. It still has charm.

 

Yes I read your before-editing version of the post and I certainly learned my lesson.
Even though, surely the seller is the one to blame?

When I walk into a specialised shop I expect not to be fouled, whether I was an expert or not.

 

I edited it because I realised it wasn't kind or helpful and the watch is already bought, something I didn't initially realise. I didn't want to add further worry. Yes I agree the seller has been deceitful but it rather depends on how they described the watch. If they said it was fully original they lied but if they said genuine they didn't. Weasel words are often used in the trade to ensnare the unwary. eBay for instance is chock full of problem watches. They probably sell hundreds of watches like this to happy punters who are none the wiser and not being the type to frequent fora, never get a rude awakening. Perhaps they even sell on the watch to a further unsuspecting buyer with no one any the wiser.

 

Well, the guy spent at least 20 minutes showing me details that would prove it was fully original, he also gave me 12 months warranty and as I live locally remained available for any advice, history, curiosities about Omega.
That cheeky man even showed me a Rolex Cellini that -he said- would fit beautifully on my small wrist.
(...)
I felt something wasn’t quite right when I came back home and when I did some research I freaked out.

As I said, we’re not collectors, I wanted to give him something beautiful and reliable to cherish and to pass to his son one day.

Anyway. More pictures of the disaster.

 

Was the bracelet included in the deal? That is worth a few hundred so if the watch is running well even with the issues it wasn’t a terrible deal. The steps are not as obvious as some but I do think that is a pie pan dial. If your husband/partner wears it then no doubt it will be cherished when passed on for that reason alone, other considerations are less important.

 

Yes it was included!

I have been in 3 different Omega selling shops, one of which specialised in vintages and all confirmed it’s genuine, possibly re-painted but none of them wanted to open it.
So I’m waiting the man who sold it be come back later, I’ll only ask him to open it to take a picture and find the date from the serial number in the hope it’s the same age as my partner (1970).
Let’s wait and see.
Anyway as inexpert as I am it doesn’t look like an ugly watch to me.
Let’s add to it sentimental value

 

Well, the side and rear shots show it is definitely a genuine Omega case.

I’m still not convinced about the dial being a pie pan.

If @lisapan can have the back removed the movt should tell us.

You need the cal -should be 551
The serial - will help date the watch.
The case reference on inner case back - should be 167.005 (or 14900)

- if there is a little ‘1’ inside the Omega symbol on the movement it’s a dome dial not a pie pan.
EDIT: this not correct as the 1 appears on both pie pans and dome dials.

(BTW,I doubt it is as late as 1970. )

I agree that it still has some charm and I would leave well alone now and wear it for what is - a very well-intentioned gift for your significant other.

 

It's an later bracelet (70s, very late 60s possibly) and not used on this reference - I think more than £100 would be very optimistic, sadly

 

The 1 is to do with hand height ie to clear dial furniture so yes it indirectly linked to the dial fitted. A printed dial would need less clearance than an applied block marker dial for instance, and perhaps a dome more clearance than a pie pan.

 

I did not complained as he said “yes the dial might have been restored, if it wasn’t it would’ve cost more”.

And I think he’s probably right.

Serial number dates it to 1964, cal. 551, 167.005

So just a redial, correct?

Anyway, pictures for the now awaken North America too

 

Case number and serial check out for a dog leg model from circa 1964-5

 

Here’s what I found about the 1

(so much to learn)

http://download1646.mediafire.com/u...umber+1+in+Omega+mid-500+series+movements.pdf

 

I can’t open your link but I’m guessing it’s Desmond’s essay.

When this topic was raised previously I also quoted Desmond but @Archer , one of our resident expert watchmakers, explained about the number 1 being about the dial height- re the hands.
I understood it didn’t appear on pie pans but I stand corrected and will add an edit to my previous post to correct it for posterity.

(Not wishing to be like a dog with a bone but I still think the OP watch looks like a dome dial painted to look like a pie pan. )