New Old Stock - General Questions

pnwyankee · Sep 17, 2019

I am still relatively new to the world of collecting vintage watches and am trying with the help of OF to limit my costly mistakes as I work through phase 1: every watch I see looks interesting and if I can get it at a fair price I want to own it
Particularly seductive are ( seemingly ) credible sellers selling a vintage watch in a brand I have been reading about in New Old Stock condition.
They obviously pass the "it looks great" test and for a newbie like me it would seem like a 60 year old watch that has never been worn and is advertised as running well it seems there is less likelihood of discovering mechanical issues
And yet when I find a dealer/seller whose website includes lots of New Old Stock examples, I start seeing little red flags.
My question to OF is this - what is your general feeling about buying New Old Stock vintage watches?
What are the pitfalls I should be aware of?
Thanks.

Ville_W · Sep 17, 2019

One trap is that if you wish to keep it in NOS condition you can never wear it. That’s the reason why I never buy NOS watches.

BlackTalon · Sep 17, 2019

Pitfalls? Well, the fact that many vintage watches are indicated to be NOS yet they are not.

JwRosenthal · Sep 17, 2019

Condition below new or New old stock are subjective (there are collectors standards like you have for coins and trading cards but they are much looser). If the watch has ever been out of the box and has had the stickers, hang tags removed etc- even if it were just in a jewelers showcase, then technically it is no longer “new” or new old stock. It is just “like new” or excellent at that point. Plus it must have all boxes and paperwork (and stickers and hang tags) to be NOS.
You will see listings on this or other serious collector forums for watches that have never actually been worn, maybe tried on and bracelet sized but that’s it. You will note that these serious collectors will never say it’s “new” or “new old stock”. They will say “Full kit”, sized but not worn. The wording is careful becuase they know the standards for New or NOS, and many of the ones you see online are a far cry from that.
Using terms like this are common in used collectible sales- always take with a grain of salt. Plus, if you see lots of NOS watches from the same seller- be leery.

MCC · Sep 17, 2019

I just don't think there are many genuine NOS watches. Those that exist will command a significant premium.

Personally I would be happy with "good condition commensurate with the age" a vintage watch will generally have been worn and have its own unique markings

jinson · Sep 17, 2019

I’m overly cautious and perhaps skeptical when it comes to NOS for older vintage watches as stated for all the reasons above. There are so many conditions that need to be met that most watches presented as NOS do not qualify - not worn, presented by the original dealer or first owner, untouched complete set, etc. I would also add “unpolished” to the same level of caution and due diligence.

cristos71 · Sep 17, 2019

I can't stand it when a seller claims," In like NOS condition " Argh, enough reason for me to walk on by. 99.9% of the time it isn't in new condition and they are just trying to gouge more € out of the sale.

"In like NOS condition" = potential expensive mistake for the unwary noob

JwRosenthal · Sep 17, 2019

To drive a NOS cautionary point home:
In vintage hi-fi, vintage vacuum tubes command serious money. You will often see “NOS” tubes for sale on eBay or even on forum boards by reputable sellers. Most have been obtained from under the bench of service techs that have retired over the years or in someone’s basement.
Back in the day, when a piece of equipment was brought in for service, it was SOP for a tech to replace all the vacuum tubes, regardless of how they tested. They would pull them, replace them, then put the old tubes back in the boxes from which the new ones came, then put those under their workbench in case they needed it later. Sometimes they were the same brand and 50 years later, they may appear as NOS, but they aren’t.
As always, buyer beware. Do your homework and know exactly what you are wanting to buy, how it was packaged when it was new and how to distinguish true old stock from-put in a box of the same brand and sold as old stock.

pnwyankee · Sep 17, 2019

Great responses, just as I have come to expect here. Thanks.
In all honesty, nothing I have read in the responses, has scared me enough ( yet ) to not continue to be intrigued by this NOS Zodiac on chrono24 - here is a link ( couldn't not get the pictures to download in a usable format )
https://www.chrono24.com/zodiac/nos...ual-wind-watch--new-old-stock--id10303203.htm
I welcome feedback from any and all

PS No Box and papers, so not really NOS, but I don't think the price is out of whack without them, or is it?

Toishome · Sep 17, 2019

pnwyankee
Great responses, just as I have come to expect here. Thanks.
In all honesty, nothing I have read in the responses, has scared me enough ( yet ) to not continue to be intrigued by this NOS Zodiac on chrono24 - here is a link ( couldn't not get the pictures to download in a usable format )
https://www.chrono24.com/zodiac/nos...ual-wind-watch--new-old-stock--id10303203.htm
I welcome feedback from any and all

PS No Box and papers, so not really NOS, but I don't think the price is out of whack without them, or is it?

Nice looking watch but keep in mind its a 35mm, kinda small.

Toishome · Sep 17, 2019

Funny how he has a wrist shot but its described as unworn :whipped:

pnwyankee · Sep 17, 2019

Toishome
Funny how he has a wrist shot but its described as unworn

I appreciate you pointing that out, have to be honest, that doesn't bother me, I worry about the stuff I might miss because of my inexperience..... ie: is it a redial, has it been polished, etc?

BlackTalon · Sep 17, 2019

The point is do not pay a NOS premium for a watch that is not truly NOS.

pnwyankee · Sep 17, 2019

BlackTalon
The point is do not pay a NOS premium for a watch that is not truly NOS.

Did you look at the link I provided?
Is $1,000 a premium price for that watch?
Thanks

JwRosenthal · Sep 17, 2019

pnwyankee
Did you look at the link I provided?
Is $1,000 a premium price for that watch?
Thanks

Hands don’t match the lume on the dial- not a tell tale but something to note. Case seems sharp but no movement pics, nor a pic of the case back inside. If it doesn’t say Zodiac on the bridge and case back that kills any value as a Zodiac, then it’s just a dial on a generic Landeron watch and possibly a Franken. Plus it’s gold plate.
Frankly, I wouldn’t pay $400 for this watch

pnwyankee · Sep 17, 2019

JwRosenthal
Hands don’t match the lume on the dial- not a tell tale but something to note. Case seems sharp but no movement pics, nor a pic of the case back inside. If it doesn’t say Zodiac on the bridge and case back that kills any value as a Zodiac, then it’s just a dial on a generic Landeron watch and possibly a Franken. Plus it’s gold plate.
Frankly, I wouldn’t pay $400 for this watch

That's the kind of response I was hoping to get!
Thank you.
You just saved me $600

impalla62ss · Sep 17, 2019

Hopefully he saved you a $1000. 😉 As said before NOS is kind of a myth. I chased it for a while and found few nice watches on the cheaper end of the spectrum, but I was focused on early '70s automatics at the time. Cheap fun, but it really helped me develop skills on evaluating condition. None were truly NOS though. Box, no papers or a link had been stolen for another watch. The fun was in the search. It is really hard to find anything older, and the premium is not really worth it over a watch in excellent condition. The Valjoux 92s and 7750s are pretty cool though.

BlackTalon · Sep 17, 2019

I did not look at the ad -- my previous response was a generalization about not paying NOS prices for a watch that is not NOS. But with my curiosity peaked, I just looked at the ad. I like this:

"In excellent state of conservation although with own brands of storage. Strap not original. NEW OLD STOCK"

Yeah, that wording is the opposite of NOS to me. Plus there are some scratches on the sides of the caseback -- likely fro bracelet/ strap removal/ installation.

Nothing about that watch says NOS to me. It is missing stickers, tags, etc. It does not have original strap/ bracelet. It is missing the papers/ cards/ owners manual.

And all that doesn't even take into account what others have pointed out above.

JwRosenthal · Sep 17, 2019

And don’t get me wrong- I love my Landeron based 40’s/50’s small chrono’s, they are fun and cheap (although not cheap to service- they are a chrono). But I don’t think I’ve paid more than $350
For one and that was in stellar condition- and not NOS.

pnwyankee · Sep 17, 2019

By way of explanation, I have been looking for cool looking Zodiacs and Zeniths from the 50's, 60's, and 70's.
Since I don't know enough to be looking for particular movements yet, interesting dials in good to great cosmetic condition are what catch my eye
I try to limit my buying to places where my comfort level is highest ( OF being #1 )
But when you are looking for what I am looking for with my limited knowledge base, I can get burned by redials pretty easily and how can I spot a franken watch?
So you can see how NOS has a certain appeal right away - not because of boxes or tags, but because it provides a credible reason to believe the pristine condition of the dial could be legit
Hope that makes sense.

New Old Stock - General Questions

pnwyankee

Ville_W

BlackTalon

JwRosenthal

MCC

jinson

cristos71

JwRosenthal

pnwyankee

Toishome

Toishome

pnwyankee

BlackTalon

pnwyankee

JwRosenthal

pnwyankee

impalla62ss

BlackTalon

JwRosenthal

pnwyankee

Similar threads

Another new old stock rarity joins my collection, the 1970 Favre Leuba Duomatic

New Old Stock Tritium GMT hand for 145.013 / 145.026 / 145.036

New Old Stock Tritium Chrono hand for 145.012 / 145.022 from -68 to the late 1980s / 3590.50 or 3592.50 from the 1990s

New Old Stock from 1960s Speedmaster

New old stock models being offered by boutique

New/Old Stock NOS OMEGA 1286/249 Seamaster Dynamic Stainless Steel Vintage Bracelet Mark Speedmaster II Jedi