Forums Latest Members

New Old Stock - General Questions

  1. pnwyankee Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    1,028
    Likes
    1,325
    I am still relatively new to the world of collecting vintage watches and am trying with the help of OF to limit my costly mistakes as I work through phase 1: every watch I see looks interesting and if I can get it at a fair price I want to own it :whipped:
    Particularly seductive are ( seemingly ) credible sellers selling a vintage watch in a brand I have been reading about in New Old Stock condition.
    They obviously pass the "it looks great" test and for a newbie like me it would seem like a 60 year old watch that has never been worn and is advertised as running well it seems there is less likelihood of discovering mechanical issues
    And yet when I find a dealer/seller whose website includes lots of New Old Stock examples, I start seeing little red flags.
    My question to OF is this - what is your general feeling about buying New Old Stock vintage watches?
    What are the pitfalls I should be aware of?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Ville_W Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    241
    Likes
    2,434
    One trap is that if you wish to keep it in NOS condition you can never wear it. That’s the reason why I never buy NOS watches.
     
    DaveK and connieseamaster like this.
  3. BlackTalon This Space for Rent Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    5,160
    Likes
    8,343
    Pitfalls? Well, the fact that many vintage watches are indicated to be NOS yet they are not.
     
  4. JwRosenthal Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    14,861
    Likes
    40,076
    Condition below new or New old stock are subjective (there are collectors standards like you have for coins and trading cards but they are much looser). If the watch has ever been out of the box and has had the stickers, hang tags removed etc- even if it were just in a jewelers showcase, then technically it is no longer “new” or new old stock. It is just “like new” or excellent at that point. Plus it must have all boxes and paperwork (and stickers and hang tags) to be NOS.
    You will see listings on this or other serious collector forums for watches that have never actually been worn, maybe tried on and bracelet sized but that’s it. You will note that these serious collectors will never say it’s “new” or “new old stock”. They will say “Full kit”, sized but not worn. The wording is careful becuase they know the standards for New or NOS, and many of the ones you see online are a far cry from that.
    Using terms like this are common in used collectible sales- always take with a grain of salt. Plus, if you see lots of NOS watches from the same seller- be leery.
     
    DaveK likes this.
  5. MCC Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    589
    Likes
    529
    I just don't think there are many genuine NOS watches. Those that exist will command a significant premium.

    Personally I would be happy with "good condition commensurate with the age" a vintage watch will generally have been worn and have its own unique markings
     
    Dan S and JwRosenthal like this.
  6. jinson Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    319
    Likes
    587
    I’m overly cautious and perhaps skeptical when it comes to NOS for older vintage watches as stated for all the reasons above. There are so many conditions that need to be met that most watches presented as NOS do not qualify - not worn, presented by the original dealer or first owner, untouched complete set, etc. I would also add “unpolished” to the same level of caution and due diligence.
     
  7. cristos71 Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    7,134
    Likes
    32,881
    I can't stand it when a seller claims," In like NOS condition " Argh, enough reason for me to walk on by. 99.9% of the time it isn't in new condition and they are just trying to gouge more € out of the sale.

    "In like NOS condition" = potential expensive mistake for the unwary noob
     
  8. JwRosenthal Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    14,861
    Likes
    40,076
    To drive a NOS cautionary point home:
    In vintage hi-fi, vintage vacuum tubes command serious money. You will often see “NOS” tubes for sale on eBay or even on forum boards by reputable sellers. Most have been obtained from under the bench of service techs that have retired over the years or in someone’s basement.
    Back in the day, when a piece of equipment was brought in for service, it was SOP for a tech to replace all the vacuum tubes, regardless of how they tested. They would pull them, replace them, then put the old tubes back in the boxes from which the new ones came, then put those under their workbench in case they needed it later. Sometimes they were the same brand and 50 years later, they may appear as NOS, but they aren’t.
    As always, buyer beware. Do your homework and know exactly what you are wanting to buy, how it was packaged when it was new and how to distinguish true old stock from-put in a box of the same brand and sold as old stock.
     
  9. pnwyankee Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    1,028
    Likes
    1,325
    Great responses, just as I have come to expect here. Thanks.
    In all honesty, nothing I have read in the responses, has scared me enough ( yet ) to not continue to be intrigued by this NOS Zodiac on chrono24 - here is a link ( couldn't not get the pictures to download in a usable format )
    https://www.chrono24.com/zodiac/nos...ual-wind-watch--new-old-stock--id10303203.htm
    I welcome feedback from any and all

    PS No Box and papers, so not really NOS, but I don't think the price is out of whack without them, or is it?
     
    Edited Sep 17, 2019
  10. Toishome Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    1,991
    Likes
    9,524
    Nice looking watch but keep in mind its a 35mm, kinda small.
     
  11. Toishome Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    1,991
    Likes
    9,524
    Funny how he has a wrist shot but its described as unworn :whipped:
     
    hanky6 and kkt like this.
  12. pnwyankee Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    1,028
    Likes
    1,325
    I appreciate you pointing that out, have to be honest, that doesn't bother me, I worry about the stuff I might miss because of my inexperience..... ie: is it a redial, has it been polished, etc?
     
  13. BlackTalon This Space for Rent Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    5,160
    Likes
    8,343
    The point is do not pay a NOS premium for a watch that is not truly NOS.
     
    JwRosenthal likes this.
  14. pnwyankee Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    1,028
    Likes
    1,325
    Did you look at the link I provided?
    Is $1,000 a premium price for that watch?
    Thanks
     
  15. JwRosenthal Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    14,861
    Likes
    40,076
    Hands don’t match the lume on the dial- not a tell tale but something to note. Case seems sharp but no movement pics, nor a pic of the case back inside. If it doesn’t say Zodiac on the bridge and case back that kills any value as a Zodiac, then it’s just a dial on a generic Landeron watch and possibly a Franken. Plus it’s gold plate.
    Frankly, I wouldn’t pay $400 for this watch
     
    impalla62ss likes this.
  16. pnwyankee Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    1,028
    Likes
    1,325
    That's the kind of response I was hoping to get!
    Thank you.
    You just saved me $600
     
  17. impalla62ss Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    851
    Likes
    4,538
    Hopefully he saved you a $1000. ;) As said before NOS is kind of a myth. I chased it for a while and found few nice watches on the cheaper end of the spectrum, but I was focused on early '70s automatics at the time. Cheap fun, but it really helped me develop skills on evaluating condition. None were truly NOS though. Box, no papers or a link had been stolen for another watch. The fun was in the search. It is really hard to find anything older, and the premium is not really worth it over a watch in excellent condition. The Valjoux 92s and 7750s are pretty cool though.
     
  18. BlackTalon This Space for Rent Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    5,160
    Likes
    8,343
    I did not look at the ad -- my previous response was a generalization about not paying NOS prices for a watch that is not NOS. But with my curiosity peaked, I just looked at the ad. I like this:

    "In excellent state of conservation although with own brands of storage. Strap not original. NEW OLD STOCK"

    Yeah, that wording is the opposite of NOS to me. Plus there are some scratches on the sides of the caseback -- likely fro bracelet/ strap removal/ installation.

    Nothing about that watch says NOS to me. It is missing stickers, tags, etc. It does not have original strap/ bracelet. It is missing the papers/ cards/ owners manual.

    And all that doesn't even take into account what others have pointed out above.
     
    pnwyankee and JwRosenthal like this.
  19. JwRosenthal Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    14,861
    Likes
    40,076
    And don’t get me wrong- I love my Landeron based 40’s/50’s small chrono’s, they are fun and cheap (although not cheap to service- they are a chrono). But I don’t think I’ve paid more than $350
    For one and that was in stellar condition- and not NOS.
     
  20. pnwyankee Sep 17, 2019

    Posts
    1,028
    Likes
    1,325
    By way of explanation, I have been looking for cool looking Zodiacs and Zeniths from the 50's, 60's, and 70's.
    Since I don't know enough to be looking for particular movements yet, interesting dials in good to great cosmetic condition are what catch my eye
    I try to limit my buying to places where my comfort level is highest ( OF being #1 )
    But when you are looking for what I am looking for with my limited knowledge base, I can get burned by redials pretty easily and how can I spot a franken watch?
    So you can see how NOS has a certain appeal right away - not because of boxes or tags, but because it provides a credible reason to believe the pristine condition of the dial could be legit
    Hope that makes sense.