Hi Guys,

So I am finally in for my first vintage Speedmaster. Vintage as it captures a moment in time and it is quite cool to say the least. Speedmaster as it survives everything, even space.
Back to the point, I was reviewing the prices and purchase processes and wanted a feedback on:
-Purchasing on auction online (e.g Sotheby's) rather chrono 24
-the below specific watch
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/...speedmaster-professional-ref-145-022-10/56228

Seems to me to be in good conditions for 145.022 69 (as per my observation of the stepped dial) with a wrong bezel (again as per my observation since the 7 is not period correct) and stretch bracelet not original. All for of that for USD 4K (5 with charges).
I guess it is in line with the market but the bezel missing is bugging me, what are your thoughts?

 

Well the dial and bezel are from the mid '90s - are we sure this is a 1970s watch? No mention of serial number, no photos of the movement or inside caseback.... the bracelet's certainly vintage but that's about it from what I can see here.

 

We cannot see with the current definition, you would have to follow the link.
With a print screen of the side view, you see the stepped dial and the funny "7" of the 70

 

MattMatt you are better off getting the 69 for sale right now by a member in the listing section of the forum. Check it out, its quite nice.

 

Don't think that's a step dial

 

That is not a stepped dial. Stepped dials never had a short "S". Rather, it is a domed dial from the 90's. The hands also look to be luminova replacements.

Edit: in fact, I'm not even sure that those hands are appropriate moon watch hands. The ends of the hour and minute hands are less pointed then they should be.

 

That's not a stepped dial, it's a short-S tritium dial from a 3590.50. And there's nothing funny about the 7 of the bezel, it's a 1991-1995 DNN also from a 3590.50.

I did follow the link initially, which provides none of the information necessary to determine whether this is a '70s or '80s watch with service parts, or a '90s watch with vintage pricing. Either way don't buy

 

Agreed. Not a step dial. Those are angled, not stepped.

 

Hi Guys,

thanks for your inputs,

I am confused why would Christies sell something not matching the description? they are a "universal" trusted seller I think..

 

Auction houses employ a few "experts" who are generalists in verifications of vintage watches, but who often are not aware of the minute details that can make or break a watch listing. No matter who you're buying from, it's very important to do your homework on the watch reference you're considering buying.

 

Unless I'm missing something, they don't say it's a -69. They just say circa 70's. Still wrong but they make no specific claims about the year.

 

Learning not to believe everything an auction house tells you can be painful and expensive. Just saying.

 

I would never, ever rely solely on the descriptions of any of the major auction houses (Christies, Sotheby's, Phillips.) You need to do all of your own homework, and even then you still need to keep your fingers crossed if you buy a watch from them. I deal with them a lot in the art world, and I can tell you from experience that the mistakes in descriptions are frequent.

I think you'd be much better off buying from an individual or respected vintage watch dealer.

 

Too many noobs are still confusing stepped sub-dials with a proper stepped dial. This is probably why the OP believed it was a '69.
Hour hand is wrong btw.

 

@MattMatt
You seem very new to the world of vintage watch collecting. Once you catch the bug it's often all-consuming...welcome to the club!
My advice is to devote lots and lots of time to research and study before you leap into your first purchase--there are many things to take into account in order to make a wise purchase.
I'm also curious to know if you've seen many vintage watches "in the flesh" or have you only been looking at online images and text descriptions? I ask because I've met several recent collector/enthusiasts who've confessed to being burned on their first purchase. In each case the acquaintance divulged that they were "seduced" by the images, only to find some serious issues with the timepiece once the timepiece was received. Had they been more knowledgeable about the vintage watch, I feel that some obvious condition-problems that were readily apparent in the images could have been followed up on by the buyer-to-be in dialog with the seller.

 

Not a step dial. Dial font is clearly late 80’s or newer. Bezel is also newer.

It may be a -69 but dial and bezel where replaced in the late 80’s.

 

thank you for all your feedback,
It is an actual eye opener to know that a trusted seller, well, can't be trusted ..
I will have to do the homework which is half of the fun
Last question from a value point a view, the wrong dial, bezel and hand will definitely decrease the overall watch interest, right?
Price should be impacted or is it just a market thingy?

 

The whole thing is unknown, without a serial and inner caseback shot to verify reference there is no way to value it.

 

Right.

 

An auction house is not a “trusted seller”. (Not in the Omega Forum sense anyway) Their only duty is to the consigner (and themselves) [and not necessarily in that order]

Also, and I don’t mean for this to come off as harsh as it will sound...

If you are asking your “last question” you are not ready to buy a vintage watch. Like not even close. You need to a ton more research before even considering a purchase.