Forums Latest Members

Needs some advice regarding the Speedmaster .......

  1. bruin1md Sep 7, 2015

    Posts
    7
    Likes
    0
    ........dark side of the moon watch.

    I own a Ulysse Nardin MM Diver limited edition, and am considering selling it (have had it for 2 years and love it, but I'm realizing with each passing day it's not an ideal 'daily' watch)-- or possibly keeping it as part of my embryonic collection.

    I have never been a huge fan of the Omega Sea master collection from an aesthetics standpoint--and therefore didn't consider a PO when I bought my UN-- but I've always maintained that for the money, there may not be a better watch company out there given the quality of the movements for the price points.

    That leads me to the question I have--that I just can't seem to get a good answer to. I have been looking at the Speedmaster collection and absolutely love 2 of the watches in the collection-- priced at $12K and $15K respectively. The 9300 movement speaks for itself and they both look like watches that can be dressed up or down very easily. My HUGE concern is regarding the case material.............I've been researching ceramic cases on other watches such as the Panerai 1950 Laminar 3 Day Ceramica-- and that too is a watch I absolutely love-- but talked myself out of moving forward with it b/c I kept reading of how easy it was for owners to crack these cases.
    I had planned on wearing the Panerai as a daily watch-- until I read the reports of the cases cracking with various types of impact.
    I realize ceramic cases and bezels are less prone to scratches, but they seem FAR more prone to getting cracked or outright shattered if hit just right or dropped.

    Can anyone here tell me of the Omega process of developing their ceramic cases is different (i.e.-- are they more durable than other ceramic cases/belzels?)
    I would love to buy the dark side of the moon watch and wear it daily-- but is that wishful thinking and is it better served to be a watch worn in a limited fashion as a dress watch rather than as an every day watch?

    Option B for me would be to consider the limited edition Apollo 11 45th anniversary edition watch given that it's made of titanium and would be more suitable for daily wear-- not to mention it's a more affordable piece, and looks amazing from the pictures I've seen.
    I'm just not sure about the hand wound movement on that watch, and how luminescent the numerals are.

    Any advice/feedback would be appreciated.
     
  2. abrod520 Sep 7, 2015

    Posts
    11,218
    Likes
    35,254
    I'm not experienced with the ceramic, but it seems to me that the Dark Side is a durable enough watch. I have however been wearing my 45th LE for a bit more than a week now, and can absolutely tell you that I far prefer the manual, no-date movement to any automatic. In absolute darkness the lume is fine, and in slightly better conditions the reflectivity of the gold hands and indices allow it to be passably legible... Lest you think I'm biased though, I'm very likely going to chase down a used Dark Side in a few months as well ;)
     
  3. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Sep 7, 2015

    Posts
    26,342
    Likes
    65,045
    Welcome,

    We can now consider the can to be open and the worms are making their way out. :)

    This topic has been discussed here and on other sites, and often leads to strong opinions on either side of the debate. On to your question...

    You will get a lot of opinions, but if anyone claims to know the exact processes and specs used by Omega and all the others making ceramic cases, I personally would find that hard to believe. I don't believe you will get a definitive answer to this question really.

    I have little interest in most modern Omegas, so for me it's not something I have any personal stake in one way or another. There is no doubt that Omega cases can break, but it seems the one photo that has been seen had no details about what happened to cause the break. I have been in touch with Omega here in Canada and they have also seen one case with a lug snapped off, but again no details were given as to what happened.

    No doubt some will give you encouragement and others maybe the opposite, but I think it just comes down to your comfort level.

    As far as the movement in the Speedymaster Pro models, it is robust and reliable, but won't be as accurate typically as the 9300 would be, but I still prefer it. ;)

    Good luck with whatever you decide.

    Cheers, Al
     
  4. orbistat Sep 7, 2015

    Posts
    81
    Likes
    54
    If these ceramic cases are true high quality silicon nitride they should withstand anything a watch wearer could throw at them, including a drop from 2m, this stuff is used in high performance bearings, even rocket casings and turbocharger rotors.
     
  5. bruin1md Sep 7, 2015

    Posts
    7
    Likes
    0



    Thanks AI........

    Your reply is pretty much what most others have said-- namely, that no one really knows for sure and all most of us have to go by are anecdotal stories from those whose ceramic cases have cracked.
    And yet, the ceramic case 'craze' is something that many brands seem knee deep in.

    The two speedmasters I"m looking at from the dark side collection-- the vintage black and sedna black.

    I have no idea how they will retain their value, however.
     
  6. Canuck Sep 7, 2015

    Posts
    13,375
    Likes
    37,530
    I had long thought that the cases and bracelets on Rado watches (tungsten carbide?) were impervious to breaking and scratching. As to such materials being able to withstand anything a wearer can throw at them? Not so! About Omega ceramic cases? I'll stick to metal thanks!
     
  7. orbistat Sep 7, 2015

    Posts
    81
    Likes
    54
  8. bruin1md Sep 7, 2015

    Posts
    7
    Likes
    0
  9. abrod520 Sep 8, 2015

    Posts
    11,218
    Likes
    35,254
    Dark Sides are currently selling on the secondary market for between US$7-8K, with the top of that range for BNIB examples. The depreciation from the AD price is pretty nasty, though I'd be surprised if they lose much more of their values from here. I'd estimate the bottom to be around $5k USD in a year or two, with a big spike down at the end of this year after the new variations are introduced (Vintage Black, Sedna Black etc).
     
  10. bruin1md Sep 8, 2015

    Posts
    7
    Likes
    0
    That's a big hit...... wow. But it seems consistent with the overall depreciation I see on many modern day Omegas that I've looked at (including their Seamaster collection).

    My concern is that if I get the Vintage Black or Sedna Black (the one I'm leaning towards), I'm looking at spending $12K or $15K on each of those respectively. Even if I can negotiate 15-20% off those prices from an AD, that's still a lot to spend on a watch that could be 50% of that in a couple of couple of years on the used market-- compared to a Panerai or Rolex, which seem to hold their values better.
    If I bought the Sedna Black, it would seem to make sense to keep it for the long haul.
     
  11. abrod520 Sep 8, 2015

    Posts
    11,218
    Likes
    35,254
    Generally, I'd say if you're looking for a watch with an eye towards resaleability, best to stick with vintage pieces or certain higher-end limited-edition watches (Rolex, as you say, or Patek probably). But, if you like it and can afford it, why not buy the new Dark Side and enjoy it - resale value be damned? ;)
    Or, if you're patient enough to wait 6mos-1yr, you could purchase one for probably around 60% of its value - as Dark Sides and Grey Sides are going for now.
     
  12. bruin1md Sep 8, 2015

    Posts
    7
    Likes
    0

    Good advice regarding resale. My view is that as I expand this soon to be small collection, it would be nice to have at least one piece that really holds its value (like a number of Rolex'), and then mix in one or two pieces where I'm not as concerned about that factor.
    I can definitely wait 6 months- 1year for a second hand dark side sedna black, and in the meantime, I am going to look into how much I can get for my UN limited edition diver.
    The thing is-- I can get a Breitling Avenger Blackbird plus a yacht master (two watches I really really like) for the price of that Sedna Black brand new. Plus the Breitling is a more durable daily wearer and the yacht master is an iconic watch that can be dressed up or down.

    And I can't shake this concern about spending that much on a watch with a ceramic case, when it seems like the technology just isn't proven enough (yet) to withstand the type of daily knocks a SS or titanium watch can handle.
     
  13. abrod520 Sep 8, 2015

    Posts
    11,218
    Likes
    35,254
    Have you thought about a vintage watch, then? Some pieces are fairly contemporary in their designs - automatic Heuer Autavias are starting to see their case designs become "inspirations" for new watches, and the Moonwatch is more or less exactly the same design (though I find the older tritium lume to be far more attractive on those dials).

    Sometimes you just gotta take a chance. I mainly wear vintage watches, and would be mortified if I knocked one in such a way to scratch it, even in stainless steel. So, I just make sure to be as careful as possible when wearing them, and I doubt it'd be any different with a ceramic case. Most of the time, if I'm about to engage in an activity that's likely to result in a scratch or impact on my watch, I'll just forego wearing one at all.
     
  14. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Sep 8, 2015

    Posts
    2,828
    Likes
    4,460
    That's the first time I've ever heard the Yacht master called "iconic".
     
    ac106, italy1861 and bb58 like this.
  15. bruin1md Sep 8, 2015

    Posts
    7
    Likes
    0
    I haven't looked into vintage watches, but I'm going to start looking at them a bit more.
    And you're right about simply being careful.

    I got a bit spoiled with my UN diver-- its steel case, bezel, and band have gone through that rubberized volcanization process which makes it very resistant to any scratches/scuffs.
     
  16. bruin1md Sep 8, 2015

    Posts
    7
    Likes
    0
    Perhaps the term 'iconic' should have been reserved for some other pieces in the Rolex collection --like the Daytona.
    I just happen to really appreciate the Yachtmaster, as well as how few of them I see worn compared to the Submariner, DSD, and Daytona.
     
  17. jcmartinez98 Sep 8, 2015

    Posts
    711
    Likes
    944
    You are right that there is no "long term data" on these and that anything if you will be anecdotal. My anecdote:
    I wore my Darkside of the moon for almost a year every single day. The only times I would take it off would be to do dishes, go swimming, do yardwork and go to sleep. First two not because I was worried about the watch, but because I don't want to get the leather strap wet. The yardwork because I didn't want to break it by smacking it on something, and the last one purely for comfort.

    It has taken a couple of bumps against doorframes, etc and one drop on to a wood floor from about three and a half feet. No problems.

    I purchased a planet Ocean primarily because I am in and out of the swimming pool and the ocean on almost a daily basis for about four months out of the year, and I wanted something that could handle that

    I also have a colleague who purchased the Darkside of the moon, wore it cycling, and had the bezel fracture cleanly through by a flying stone kicked up by the bike in front of him!

    Bottom line, I think they have designed it to be pretty tough and to withstand most of the "normal Knocks" of daily life. Don't buy it to be a tool watch, but I think buying it to be a daily where is totally reasonable
    That being said, the ceramic fractures instead of denting, so it is a risk that does carry a expensive, if unlikely, consequence
     
    Edited Sep 8, 2015