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Need help with two vintage seamasters

S
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Hi All,

I am pretty new to collecting and I am thinking about purchasing my first vintage seamaster. I have found two options inline but am unsure as to their authenticity and I hoped that someone may be able to help me in determining that fact.

The first here is a (supposedly) 1965 Seamaster:

upload_2020-8-27_8-37-24.jpeg upload_2020-8-27_8-37-39.jpeg upload_2020-8-27_8-39-12.jpeg upload_2020-8-27_8-39-25.jpeg upload_2020-8-27_8-39-35.jpeg upload_2020-8-27_8-41-7.jpeg


And the second one is a 1970 Seamaster De Ville:

upload_2020-8-27_8-41-16.jpeg upload_2020-8-27_8-41-26.jpeg upload_2020-8-27_8-41-34.jpeg upload_2020-8-27_8-41-44.jpeg upload_2020-8-27_8-41-54.jpeg


Thank you all very much for you help! Anything and everything is greatly appreciated.
 
upload_2020-8-27_8-39-49.jpeg upload_2020-8-27_8-40-53.jpeg
JwRosenthal
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First one looks good, dial is original and in decent shape. Appears to be missing a few lume pips but that happens and the ones that are left have an appropriate coloration for age. Case has been lightly polished in the past but not obnoxiously- it would be a very nice daily wear after a service and if the price was right and you find it attractive, I wouldn’t hesitate.

Second one is a hot mess. The reference is about 10 years older that you were told, dial is a total fantasy redial, incorrect crown (not even sure if that is a real Omega crown at all) case has been polished to a nub, movement was either chemically stripped or saw moisture at some point...run from this one fast.

Oh, and welcome.
 
Dan S
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As mentioned above, the first one is legit. Condition issues include over-polishing (notable on the case-back especially, but also the lugs to some extent) and probably re-lumed hands. These are things that collectors would certainly take into account for valuation.

The second one is no good. In edition to what James mentioned, the hands are also wrong, and probably not Omega.
 
Spruce
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At a quick glance, the linen dial 165.003 552 movement looks okay to me.
I don’t know much about De Ville watches and can’t say whether it’s a refinished dial or not. The 505 movement looks very tired.
What prices are they?
 
S
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
First one looks good, dial is original and in decent shape. Appears to be missing a few lume pips but that happens and the ones that are left have an appropriate coloration for age. Case has been lightly polished in the past but not obnoxiously- it would be a very nice daily wear after a service and if the price was right and you find it attractive, I wouldn’t hesitate.

Second one is a hot mess. The reference is about 10 years older that you were told, dial is a total fantasy redial, incorrect crown (not even sure if that is a real Omega crown at all) case has been polished to a nub, movement was either chemically stripped or saw moisture at some point...run from this one fast.

Oh, and welcome.

Thank you!
 
S
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Spruce Spruce
At a quick glance, the linen dial 165.003 552 movement looks okay to me.
I don’t know much about De Ville watches and can’t say whether it’s a refinished dial or not. The 505 movement looks very tired.
What prices are they?

The first is around $800 and the second is $1,100
 
S
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Dan S Dan S
As mentioned above, the first one is legit. Condition issues include over-polishing (notable on the case-back especially, but also the lugs to some extent) and probably re-lumed hands. These are things that collectors would certainly take into account for valuation.

The second one is no good. In edition to what James mentioned, the hands are also wrong, and probably not Omega.
Thank you!
 
Spruce
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janice&fred janice&fred
I think the first one is workable but the 2nd one is a joke.
I agree. The linen dial might carry a slight premium and, if it’s recently serviced and the seller can provide the service invoice that would be another plus. So, not a bad example and it’s up to you 😀
 
JwRosenthal
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S shadowfax
The first is around $800 and the second is $1,100
Yeah- don’t ever look at that second one again, your retinas May have permanent damage- I just had to do an emergency eye wash.
The first one is on the higher side considering the condition issues, and you have to account for the cost of a service (even if they said it was “serviced”, unless they can provide a watchmakers invoice- it didn’t happen). But demand for this era of Seamaster is blowing up so prices are all over the map.
 
LesXL
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I owned a very similar Seamaster (gold-plated) same movement to the first one, and as other said, looks genuine to me (not sure about the hands that said, but don't take my words for it). Swiss made seems to only have one T, not sure if hands should be have lumen then. I'm afraid I'm not that much of an expert.

Fyi i paid mine around 500€ a couple of years ago.
 
LesXL
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
... But demand for this era of Seamaster is blowing up so prices are all over the map.
Ugh... I regret more and more by the days having let mine go! But I guess there is always a good reason, future will tell lol
 
MtV
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On the linen dials, once they draw the tiniest amount of moisture, it’s noticeable pretty quickly, and not in a nice patina-sort-of-way. 800USD doesn’t seem too unreasonable, I’d say. If possible and if you fancy it, talk to the seller regarding a service and mention the missing lume pips (good eyes!). Maybe you can get him down another 10% or so, which would make the price quite attractive, I’d say.

And, as mentioned above, please stay away from the second one. 😀
 
JwRosenthal
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MtV MtV
On the linen dials, once they draw the tiniest amount of moisture, it’s noticeable pretty quickly, and not in a nice patina-sort-of-way. 800USD doesn’t seem too unreasonable, I’d say. If possible and if you fancy it, talk to the seller regarding a service and mention the missing lume pips (good eyes!). Maybe you can get him down another 10% or so, which would make the price quite attractive, I’d say.

And, as mentioned above, please stay away from the second one. 😀
Agreed on the moisture- to me it’s death to a watch as the dial and hands are usually the first to show signs (of course- they are at the top of the air-gap). The lume is usually the first thing I look at on a lumed watch to tell me what kind of life it had.
The moisture will wick in from sweat or hand washing (usually the crown first which is why we see so many watches with “patina” on the right side of the dial)- even just the humidity on the skin can get in there. The lume sucks it up like a sponge first, changing the color from a bright yellow or green to a mossy or ashy color. More moisture, and the lume will saturate and start to bleed into the dial (usually see corrosion on the dial around the pips). The moisture will rise to the crystal and fog, then migrate back down when it cools and settle on the dial and hands. Hands begin to pit, dial lacquer starts to bubble and separate. Within a couple years, the watch starts to look like a toxic waste accident- and 30 years late it is featured on Hondinkee’s website as a “starry night” dial and sells for 10x what a flawless well kept example would have.🙄
Edited:
 
LesXL
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
Agreed on the moisture- to me it’s death to a watch as the dial and hands are usually the first to show signs (of course- they are at the top of the air-gap). The lume is usually the first thing I look at on a lumed watch to tell me what kind of life it had.
The moisture will wick in from sweat or hand washing (usually the crown first which is why we see so many watches with “patina” on the right side of the dial)- even just the humidity on the skin can get in there. The lume sucks it up like a sponge first, changing the color from a bright yellow or green to a mossy or ashy color. More moisture, and the lume will saturate and start to bleed into the dial (usually see corrosion on the dial around the pips). The moisture will rise to the crystal and fog, then migrate back down when it cools and settle on the dial and hands. Hands begin to pit, dial lacquer starts to bubble and separate. Within a couple years, the watch starts to look like a toxic waste accident- and 30 years late it is featured on Hondinkee’s website as a “starry night” dial and sells for 10x what a flawless well kept example would have.
Oh... I won't remove my watch next time I wash my hands then 😀 ... Ofc, I'll have to wait 30 years, I might be dead then!
 
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