Community Stories

Need help identifying this vintage Speedmaster

J
Posts
19
Likes
0
So, update. I got a jeweler to crack the case back and give me the serial #. It is a 145.022 74ST. I went to Omega today and asked them to order the imprint from the archive. They said that at the 2014 service, the records show the option of a redial was presented, but not taken, so the dial currently on it (as pictured) is the dial which was on it when it came in for service in 2014. My parents maintain it was never serviced between purchase in 1974 and this 2014 trip to Omega. The Omega staff further said that this dial IS authentic and an Omega dial, because if it wasn't, then the redial would have been mandatory in 2014, not optional. I broached the subject of Tiffany co-branding, and the first woman didn't think there were co-branded Speedys, which there were. The other guy said perhaps this weird dial, was unique to Tiffany. He actually suggested I ask the forum for help or reddit. So here we are. We have 100% confirmation the watch is authentic. We know it's a 1974 Speedy. The serial # has been logged and we are awaiting the imprint from the archives, but if anyone can help me make sense of this dial, that is going to be the real mystery. As noted the font is off, there is no Omega logo, and it is missing the T Swiss Made T on the bottom. I believe they replaced the hands at the 2014 service so that explains if they aren't era appropriate, but they didn't touch the dial or the bezel. Any help you can offer would be great, I don't know what my next steps are to solve this mystery.
 
Dash1
Posts
1,875
Likes
3,770
J JSB79
I don't know what my next steps are to solve this mystery
No real mystery, your watch had a redial at some point in its life. I’ve bought many watches from first owners who claimed their watch had never been serviced, when they clearly had been. It’s not so surprising that something as insignificant as a watch service could be forgotten after 30 or 40 years! Do you have any photos of the inside of the case back? There might even be a service mark there.
If it bothers you it won’t be too difficult to find an original dial and hand set from the period. The bezel is original though.
 
J
Posts
19
Likes
0
Dash1 Dash1
No real mystery, your watch had a redial at some point in its life. I’ve bought many watches from first owners who claimed their watch had never been serviced, when they clearly had been. It’s not so surprising that something as insignificant as a watch service could be forgotten after 30 or 40 years! Do you have any photos of the inside of the case back? There might even be a service mark there.
If it bothers you it won’t be too difficult to find an original dial and hand set from the period. The bezel is original though.

The only previous owner was my father and while it's possible he forgot, he is adamant that it was never serviced, which is why it sat in a box in his closet for so long. Also, if he forgot and there was a redial, can anyone explain how THIS dial came to be on there? Omega say this is a genuine Omega dial, but given all of the weirdness, I would like to get the story on an legit Omega dial with this font, no logo, etc...I do have a caseback photo. See attached.
 
IMG_0619.jpg
padders
Posts
10,309
Likes
16,136
J JSB79
So, update. I got a jeweler to crack the case back and give me the serial #. It is a 145.022 74ST. I went to Omega today and asked them to order the imprint from the archive. They said that at the 2014 service, the records show the option of a redial was presented, but not taken, so the dial currently on it (as pictured) is the dial which was on it when it came in for service in 2014. My parents maintain it was never serviced between purchase in 1974 and this 2014 trip to Omega. The Omega staff further said that this dial IS authentic and an Omega dial, because if it wasn't, then the redial would have been mandatory in 2014, not optional. I broached the subject of Tiffany co-branding, and the first woman didn't think there were co-branded Speedys, which there were. The other guy said perhaps this weird dial, was unique to Tiffany. He actually suggested I ask the forum for help or reddit. So here we are. We have 100% confirmation the watch is authentic. We know it's a 1974 Speedy. The serial # has been logged and we are awaiting the imprint from the archives, but if anyone can help me make sense of this dial, that is going to be the real mystery. As noted the font is off, there is no Omega logo, and it is missing the T Swiss Made T on the bottom. I believe they replaced the hands at the 2014 service so that explains if they aren't era appropriate, but they didn't touch the dial or the bezel. Any help you can offer would be great, I don't know what my next steps are to solve this mystery.

In addition to the green ink, that caseback shows about 3 other sets of marks suggesting several services in its past. I don't agree that the fact they didn't insist on a redial in 2014 somehow confirms it is original. If you send a redialled watch to Omega with a genuine (but repainted) dial they will, if they have one, offer a replacement but wont insist you take it as long as the one on the watch isn't going to compromise the watch with flaking lume etc. I think you have to face the likely reality that this was redialled, the fact it has odd coloured lume with incorrect long plots suggests this also. If there was no service before 2014, what are the other marks...
 
Dash1
Posts
1,875
Likes
3,770
There you go. It has been serviced at least twice before by the look of it.
 
padders
Posts
10,309
Likes
16,136
Have you looked closely at the running second sub dial? The printing is maligned and several of the indices spill out onto the dial itself. There is no way that is a factory dial, no offence but it is a terrible job.
 
J
Posts
19
Likes
0
padders padders
Have you looked closely at the running second sub dial? The printing is maligned and several of the indices spill out onto the dial itself. There is no way that is a factory dial, no offence but it is a terrible job.

So how could that happen? Is there any way to learn anything about who might have done what based on the other caseback markings?
 
Dan S
Posts
23,491
Likes
52,218
J JSB79
So how could that happen?

The dial was repainted in the past, probably at one of the previous times it was serviced. People forget. But there is no question.
 
J
Posts
19
Likes
0
Dan S Dan S
The dial was repainted in the past, probably at one of the previous times it was serviced. People forget. But there is no question.

Repainted meaning they painted over the original, or redialed? Under what circumstances would they pain over the original?
 
Dan S
Posts
23,491
Likes
52,218
J JSB79
Repainted meaning they painted over the original, or redialed? Under what circumstances would they pain over the original?

"Redialed" and "painted over the original" are synonyms. They refer to exactly the same thing. Someone would do this if the dial were damaged. Probably not Omega, who would replace the dial with an unused service dial.
 
padders
Posts
10,309
Likes
16,136
J JSB79
Repainted meaning they painted over the original, or redialed? Under what circumstances would they pain over the original?
Ahh I think I see why you are getting frustrated. In watch circles, redialled means that the original dial is taken and repainted. It was (and to a lesser extent still is) very common and was almost considered a routine and inexpensive additional service since older tritium lume material only had a useful life of around 10 years. Thus if you wanted your dial to glow, you got it redialled. If there were spots from condensation or scratches from careless hand removal, you got it redialled (repainted). Maybe ~20%* of the vintage watches for sale on ebay have had some serious dial work at some point, many a complete repaint in fact. Thus you can have an original dial (plate) but it still be considered a redial.

*wild guess but my point stands, it is not uncommon.
 
J
Posts
19
Likes
0
padders padders
Ahh I think I see why you are getting frustrated. In watch circles, redialled means that the original dial is taken and repainted. It was (and to a lesser extent still is) very common and was almost considered a routine an inexpensive additional service since older tritium lume material only had a useful life of around 10 years. Thus if you wanted your dial to glow, you got it redialled. If there were spots from condensation or scratches from careless hand removal, you got it redialled (repainted). Maybe ~20% of the vintage watches for sale on ebay have had some serious dial work at some point, many a complete repaint in fact. Thus you can have an original dial (plate) but it still be considered a redial.

Gotcha, would there be markings on the back of the dial to confirm if the dial itself was the original sold with the watch? If so, is there any way to restore the original underneath and strip the redial work?
 
padders
Posts
10,309
Likes
16,136
J JSB79
Gotcha, would there be markings on the back of the dial to confirm if the dial itself was the original sold with the watch? If so, is there any way to restore the original underneath and strip the redial work?
Yes, it would likely have the maker's name 'Singer" or similar and maybe some numbers. It probably is original. Sometimes the redialling process also leaves telltale marks too. No unfortunately there is no way to restore the original dial look, other than having the dial re-done (again) by someone very talented. Your best bet if you really want it put back to factory may be to buy a replacement original dial, but it wont be cheap, ie several hundred. A good redial (paint and relume job) would be more like $150-250 but will most likely still be detectable by experts.
 
J
Posts
19
Likes
0
padders padders
Yes, it would likely have the maker's name 'Singer" or similar and maybe some numbers. It probably is original. Sometimes the redialling process also leaves telltale marks too. No unfortunately there is no way to restore the original dial look, other than having the dial re-done (again) by someone very talented. Your best bet if you really want it put back to factory may be to buy a replacement original dial, but it wont be cheap, ie several hundred. A good redial (paint and relume job) would be more like $150-250 but will most likely still be detectable by experts.

The only issue is that this was purchased at Tiffany & Co in 1974. I am not sure if ALL Speedys sold there were co-branded, but if they were, then the original would be a lot more than several hundred and it might not be possible to locate one at all. So assuming the extract confirms that this was purchased at Tiffany and for argument's sake if all Speedys sold at Tiffany in 1974 were co-branded and if the plate is original, would it be possible to find a good redial (does Omega not offer this) to the way it would have been sold? For just a regular redial, Omega will swap in a new dial for ~$110 I think they said at the next service if I want to go that route. I am interested in finding out how this looked on the day of sale and trying to restore it as close as I can to that state.
 
padders
Posts
10,309
Likes
16,136
J JSB79
The only issue is that this was purchased at Tiffany & Co in 1974. I am not sure if ALL Speedys sold there were co-branded, but if they were, then the original would be a lot more than several hundred and it might not be possible to locate one at all. So assuming the extract confirms that this was purchased at Tiffany and for argument's sake if all Speedys sold at Tiffany in 1974 were co-branded and if the plate is original, would it be possible to find a good redial (does Omega not offer this) to the way it would have been sold? For just a regular redial, Omega will swap in a new dial for ~$110 I think they said at the next service if I want to go that route. I am interested in finding out how this looked on the day of sale and trying to restore it as close as I can to that state.
The problem with the Tiffany thing is that AFAIK Omega have no record of which watches were sold through Tiffany, so your extract wont mention this and while Tiffany may have a record (or may not), they have always refused requests to confirm a serial or allow access their records. I think the Tiffany connection is dead in the water to be honest, and trying to reinstate it by repainting wont IMO add value. If you want it just for your own reasons then yes I am sure you can persuade a redialler to add it.

If Omega are willing to fit a new Superluminova dial for only $110 then another option, perhaps the best option it to allow them to do that, then afterwards get the original hands refitted and new dial relumed to match with a more patinated lume material. Again an expert will spot this as the fonts wont be right for a -74 but it may be be the best bet.
Edited:
 
J
Posts
19
Likes
0
padders padders
The problem with the Tiffany thing is that Omega have no record of which watches were sold through Tiffany, so your extract wont mention this and while Tiffany may have a record (or may not), they have always refused requests to confirm a serial or allow access their records. I think the Tiffany connection is dead in the water to be honest, and trying to reinstate it by repainting wont IMO add value. If you want it just for your own reasons then yes I am sure you can persuade a redialler to add it.

If Omega are willing to fit a new Superluminova dial for only $110 then another option, perhaps the best option it to allow them to do that, then get the original hands refitted and new dial relumed to match with a more patinated lume material. Again an expert will spot this as the fonts wont be right for a -74 but it may be be the best bet.

Yea I mean I would never sell it. I am just trying to get a clear picture of how it would have looked in '74 and try to get it as close as possible to that. Would want to confirm that it was co-branded before going to a re-dialer though. No one has had any luck just getting a yes/no? I thought the extract might indicate where the watch was delivered to for sale, guess not. Will have to look into your other options and see who the best person to restore Omega's in my city is. TY
 
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

J

Need help Identifying this Vintage Omega Seamaster !

Jkrolrutgers Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
Spruce
Spruce
Posts
2
Views
452
T

Help Identifying this Vintage Omega

tuesdayman01 Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
T
tuesdayman01
Posts
7
Views
638
G

Need help identifying this ladies Omega

Grumpybrains Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
Clelow
Clelow
Posts
8
Views
617
S

Help identifying this watch please

StefanT Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
Dan S
Dan S
Posts
3
Views
340
JimP

Need help identifying grandpa’s vintage Omega

JimP Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
JimP
JimP
Posts
9
Views
380
Rumanito

Help identifying this vintage Omega (31mm, gold case, copper dial)

Rumanito Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
Gary Johnston
Gary Johnston
Posts
9
Views
956