Hi all, Long time lurker, first time poster....Hoping to change that tho! I'd like to request your help in assessing the originality of this 1967 Pre Moon Speedmaster (145.012-67) and any suggestions on a fair price. I met the seller of this watch at the regional NAWCC event in Pasadena, Ca this past weekend. He has the watch listed on his site for $5k and claims that all parts are original. I've done some research, but wanted to get some direct input from the community on the actual watch. My area of concern is the bezel, it's not a dot over 90. I believe it has been replaced, and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, that it was something that he overlooked upon his purchase sometime ago, since this is from his personal collection and he is a legit seller. The watch comes with the original 1039 bracelet in great condition with the 516 end pieces. The seller claims that both it and the case have not been polished. The movement is the caliber 321 as you all know, but he mentioned that the serial number is 20070XXX, again something that I think he may have not read correctly or was a typo, because I believe it should be between 25M and 26.5M, from the research I've done. One last note, the watch does not come with box or papers, which is not a deal breaker by any account. So onto price, as I mentioned he is asking $5k for the watch in it's current condition with no box/papers. Any suggestions on what you think a fair price for this watch would be in it's current condition? Any thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated. Not sure what the forum rules are on that...if there is an issue, please PM me. Please let me know if there is any additional information that I can provide. Thanks!
Hi, Bezel is replacement for sure. Pic of the crown is required. Those two parts are the most often replaced during servicing. Index look in very bad condition (all the lume gone? difficult to see in the pics). 5K ... not a fait price for this one (personnal opinion). You will find better with a piece of patience for sure...
Thanks for the feedback Fost. Yea, sorry I didn't take a picture of the crown side, but below are shot of the crown side from his website. I should have taken closer pics of the dial, i'll see if I can have the seller send me some higher resolution pics of it. I don't remember off-hand if the lume was missing, I don't believe it was...some areas have chipped away like the lume dot on the left side of the 12 o'clock indice.
The bezel is certainly a later type and it does look like most of the lume is missing from the dial. This removes a significant amount of character from the watch. The case has also definitely being polished and on a reference which is fairly easy to find, this alone would be a deal breaker for me. IMO it's also overpriced. I'd keep looking as with patience, better examples can be had for less money.
I don't do all this work for fun you know.... http://www.speedmaster101.com/price-chart/ Actually I do . So is it good, or poor? For me, missing lume, polished case, wrong bezel, no history, it is poor, perhaps a little better. It is not, for me, good, and then price to be reduced for bezel (600) dial ?? Case ?? And lack of service 600. too many arbitrary valuations required. Better to start at poor and push the price up for things you like. Which on this watch isn't much....original but poor dial, original but poor case, original hands. Also before we go any further, the movement number must be confirmed.
It bothers me when a seller represents the watch as something it is not... either s/he is ignorant, or a liar. Giving benefit of the doubt that the seller is just ignorant, good on you for doing your due diligence before purchase. I'm with the consensus here, replacement bezel, polished case, missing lume are individually potential deal breakers for me, all together is a definite pass in my book, better examples will be out there, and yes you will pay a premium for a good example (you didn't mention if you have a budget in mind). For the right price just about any watch is potentially worth a buy, but $5k is way off on this one. I have this same reference and I can tell you that consistently aged lume on the dial is what brings so much character to this watch. Really keep your eye on that detail.
I agree. I didn't buy first speedy because it was a 1971, rather because the dial was nice with nice patina on the hands and lumes, case wasn't polished very much, bezel was nice, and it had a decent 1039 bracelet. And it was half the price of this one you are looking at. I've only been a memeber for a few months, but it only took that amount of time to read and ask a few questions to have some general knowledge about what I need to look out for.
I also agree with the consensus around here too. You should bring enough knowledge to the table or have a seller you trust. In this case, it seems you don't know the seller and he doesn't have enough that he is bringing to the table. So, that is a double whammy imo
Yes me too. ThE bezel and dial can be changed if the watch is bought at a bargain but an over polished case is irreversible.
I've been pondering a 145.012 for a few weeks now, and only reason I haven't pulled the trigger is because the case is polished, although not over polished. Just still kind of bothers and I can't seem to get over that hump
If it bothers you now, before you have paid for it, imagine what you will feel after! (This from bitter experience)
Hey guys, Thank you for all of the great feedback and suggestions!! I really appreciate it and certainly learned a new thing or two about these vintage speedies.....I'm going to heed the community's advice and pass over this one, and look for another. The search continues!! my wallet and me thank you!
Agree with previous postings. You can do better, probably for less $. Regarding 60's era watches coming with box and papers - in my experience, very unlikely to find that. Watches do occasionally come with 'original box', but typically is not original to that particular watch i.e. no original Omega warranty specifying matching movement # etc.
I agree that 5k is, for now, too expensive for a 145.012-67 especially if it lacks the correct bezel. Looks like you need an extra link or two for the 1039 bracelet as well. That's about another $100. For about 5k, you should be able to still find the previous reference, the 105.012, with the correct bazel and the 1035. While the 145.012-67 and the 105.012 are very similar (except for the pushers, I think)' the 105.012 is the first Professional Speedie and is also, I believe, the only watch proven to have been worn on by either Aldrin or Armstrong on Apollo 11.
I'm also bothered by this crown. Something doesn't look quite right. The picture is out of focus, but it looks like it has more than 24 ridges to it, which is what an original crown has. The Ω symbol on it also doesn't look "quite" right. While it is of vintage form (and not the squatter, more modern form), at the same time, it just looks off. Like, perhaps, the crown may be off of the 2007 "1957 Speedmaster" special edition 3000-series calibre watch. All in all, I'd pass on this one too. All great points above from others too.