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My patient walked in with what I believe is a 105.003 in great condition. What's it worth?

  1. cleanup Oct 6, 2016

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    I am not a Speedy expert; I own a transitional 3950.50 and wear the pants out of it, but know very little about even older references.

    I am a dental surgeon and had a patient come in wearing an old Speedmaster. I told him it was beautiful. Upon closer inspection it's a straight-lug pre-professional model. He said he bought it in 1967 and he is the original owner. A couple years ago Omega replaced (from his recollection) the crystal, the crown, and the bracelet. He still has the old bracelet but says it's in pieces, and I think Omega did him a bit of a disservice with the new bracelet (appears to be the same bracelet I have on my 3950.

    Otherwise, the dial, hands & bezel all appear original. The condition looks great. Maybe some light polishing, but you can indeed see that it has actually aged relatively little.

    I told him it was worth quite a bit more than he thought (he had estimated $3000 CAD). I told him it was closer to $10k, but I feel as though in this sort of condition it may be well beyond that. He doesn't have box, papers, unfortunately, but I feel as though the condition of the watch speaks for itself.

    Any thoughts as to how much it would be worth?

    Cheers guys. File_000.jpeg
     
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  2. Lapanouse Oct 6, 2016

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    Your estimate could be very close. Photos would be necessary to determine whether it's a 5k or 15k dollar watch.
     
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  3. cvrle1 Oct 6, 2016

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  4. cleanup Oct 6, 2016

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    I attached the only photo I have. Is it not visible?
     
  5. cleanup Oct 6, 2016

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    I did consult SM101. Just not sure what "Good" condition is; I don't believe it's collector status.
     
  6. cvrle1 Oct 6, 2016

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    From the price chart on Speedy101:

    Poor – Missing some smaller parts, not running well, showing some wear. It should run after service. This is a wildly variable price depending what is missing. This group also includes watches that while correct and complete, are so entirely degraded in every part as to be unattractive. This group does not include “parts” or project watches where either the dial, case or movement is missing or very bad. A watch that starts out in this group is very unlikely to be transformed into the upper “Good” group by a simple service.

    Running – Probably needing a service, but all parts present and correct for the reference. This is the most common category, be prepared to reduce from here for each incorrect part.

    Good -Serviced, complete with absolutely correct parts. Could be called “very good” it is likely the condition most collectors or owners are happy with. The case and dial should be undamaged.

    Collector – Very, very few watches are in this condition. Almost unworn, untouched. Unpolished, faultless. This is the highest price I would expect a Speedmaster to fetch unless it is New Old Stock and absolutely unworn ever. If you take this price to value a watch, I am certain I could find reasons to reduce from the figure. (Which is the idea). A further concept to illustrate “Collector” is the idea that if it were worn for six months, it would become “Good”. It does not include NOS which is an ethereal market.
     
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  7. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Oct 6, 2016

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    To give a good assessment, you'd want to post more pics from different angles, preferably in natural light. You'd also want to confirm the reference and movement number.

    Given the single pic, it is going to be closer to $10K. That bezel alone is worth an easy $1800+. Dial looks to be in good condition and the case looks pretty sharp.

    He's in for a nice surprise!
     
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  8. cvrle1 Oct 6, 2016

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    Send your patient my way. I will gladly pay what he thought his watch is worth. And what are the odds, I am in Canada too! :p
     
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  9. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Oct 6, 2016

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    Hey, so am I!
     
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  10. cvrle1 Oct 6, 2016

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    I'll pay him in US$. Our Canadian Peso is so bad, it's not even funny any more.
     
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  11. cleanup Oct 6, 2016

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    I'd say it's solidly in "good" condition. It's not wholly original but I imagine has period-correct replacement parts (crystal & crown).

    $12k USD or so seems a conservative estimate then I imagine.

    I'll give him more good news next time I see him.

    But I urged him not to sell it. And I told him not to tell his wife. :)

    If any of you guys want to chat watches while receiving local anesthetic though, please let me know. :D Cheers for the help. I think I'll ask him for some more photos next time, and I did tell him to find out reference/case numbers, etc.
     
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  12. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Oct 6, 2016

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    And here I thought I had gathered up all the vintage speedies in Canada... ;)
     
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  13. cvrle1 Oct 6, 2016

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    Make sure he is sitting down when you tell him, cause he is for a shock :D
     
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  14. Lapanouse Oct 7, 2016

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    Sorry, I didn't see the image before. It's still very important to see inside. My biggest issue with it is the lack of aesthetic appeal. The dial has no color. I'd have thought it a service dial except for the tritium markings, and it may be an older service dial. It still has considerable value, but on 60s Speedmasters, if there is no attractive coloration on the dial/hands, I am never a buyer unless the price is bargain basement. 12k usd is too high, in my opinion.
     
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  15. Dgercp Oct 7, 2016

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    One can be very decieved by one photo regarding color of dial.
     
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  16. Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Oct 7, 2016

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    I agree. While remembering this photo might be in the harsh light of a dentists office, the dial and handset lack any attraction to me. The lume has no colour, if it is there at all. The dial body colour is very black, making me double check for the T marks.

    This history is not attractive. I mean no offence to the owner, but this is exactly the kind of maintainance that a collector like me doesn't like. I am willing to bet the movement screws are all damaged to some extent. Now if you are buying a watch to wear and enjoy this is not a problem, indeed the servicing means it's in serviceable condition. The bracelet endlinks are likely to have marked the case - or without photos I have to assume they have.

    The dial may have been "washed", as my Italian friends like to describe the process of removing all luminous material leaving only the white base of the plots. The hands look replaced, not as I would expect to see on a watch with this history if they were original.

    The bezel is indeed valuable, but not one that I would go out on a limb for. It fits with the watch.

    This is exactly the kind of watch that I talk about when I say just because it has all the right parts, doesn't mean it is a high value.

    There have been recent sales of 105.003's for over $13,000 but each was better than this one.(no offence to owner).

    The Phillips 105.003 is estimated at $20,000. It will be a good indication of the market if it sells - although the Geneva saleroom may not be full of typical collectors that sustain the bulk of the market.

    But the original question is what is it worth?

    For me I see it selling on eBay for around $10,000, but I could also see it floundering at $8000.
     
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  17. Lapanouse Oct 7, 2016

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    Each time I see a watch like this one bringing 10k ish usd I gently kick myself for not buying more of them just a few years ago. Crazy.

    And the notion of a "bubble" makes no sense in this instance. Unless the world economy crashes, totally, I don't see speedmaster prices going down. I'm referring to vintage watches only. It's a supply and demand market, and there are new young buyers entering the fray every day. That's my opinion.
     
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  18. WatchWarlock Oct 7, 2016

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    As a young/new buyer, I wish I started during the "early-internet" years. Now, with so much information available (including this forum), buyers are generally more well-informed and the market has adjusted accordingly. However, I still think vintage Speedys are underappreciated in relation to their Rolex counterparts, and there's still room for growth. We might collectively be kicking ourselves for not picking these up for $8-12 if they jump to $15-20 in the next decade.

    Sorry entering the fray and raising everyone's collection value. :p
     
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  19. jaguar11 Oct 8, 2016

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    I guess really that the watch was bought to be worn and has been with its owner through life changing events. Is the value that important? Makes me sad sometimes......
     
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  20. jaguar11 Oct 8, 2016

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