Mumbai Railmaster style Geneves

clockoclock · Sun. 2:36am

Hey folks,

I have a beef with one auction house. I bid on a lot of watches a few weeks ago that included a Rado, which unfortunately turned out to be a fake and also bought a Cosmic that is the real deal, but it was stone dead and requires a costly service, without any mention about it from them.
By law they’re required to mention this.

Both cases are still open and they haven’t shown any interest in resolving these issues.

Now I saw they are at it again selling fakes.

Two of them are Omega Geneve (not even written Genève) with Railmaster style dials.
I’m personally convinced these are fakes. Real Mumbai specials with fantastic dials and fat lume indexes.

Then there’s this blue dialed Omega that is sold as a Genève that is also suspicious looking.

I intend to escalate with action against this auction house, but I want to be sure I’m right about these watches so I’m calling on the experts here to confirm or unconfirm what I think.

Thanks!

Link to the auction (click on the arrow forward as these are lots no 573, 574, 575:
https://www.huutokauppaekman.fi/tampere/huutokauppa/732000/tuote/omega-geneve-rannekello-2

JimInOz · Sun. 5:27am

Just concentrate on your particular cases, but I suspect you won't have much luck.

I'm not fluent in Finnish, but it appears that they auction everything from baby toys to watches, and know nothing about what they are offering other than what a seller has told them.

As to the re-dialed fantasy Omegas, forget them, they're everywhere and it's up to the buyer to confirm what it is before they buy it.
You can't be the "dodgy Omega policeman for all the internet", just know what you're buying and enjoy them.

clockoclock · Sun. 7:43am

JimInOz
Just concentrate on your particular cases, but I suspect you won't have much luck.

I'm not fluent in Finnish, but it appears that they auction everything from baby toys to watches, and know nothing about what they are offering other than what a seller has told them.

As to the re-dialed fantasy Omegas, forget them, they're everywhere and it's up to the buyer to confirm what it is before they buy it.
You can't be the "dodgy Omega policeman for all the internet", just know what you're buying and enjoy them.

Thanks for the answer.

I’m not policing the net, I’m building my own case to take to our consumer ombudsman (or whichever equivalent that would be in English). They claim to authenticate the goods they sell (in this case they claim they had a hired expert) and we have a strong consumer legislation to protect us consumers from exactly this kind of fake goods, and goods with hidden flaws/issues that the seller must’ve been aware of.

Edit: they claim to be and to have experts for very expensive art, collectibles and antiques.

Davidt · Sun. 12:11pm

The watches are legitimate. They just have horrid fantasy redials, so crap as they are, “fake” isn’t correct

clockoclock · Sun. 4:16pm

Davidt
The watches are legitimate. They just have horrid fantasy redials, so crap as they are, “fake” isn’t correct

If by definition, legitimate, equals a watch that works, shows time and pleases the owner. Then sure. But to sell it as an Omega Genève, isn’t correct, since it’s not what it is.

Davidt · Sun. 4:24pm

It’s exactly what it is. It is an Omega Geneve. It’s utter crap with a shitty redial but it doesn’t change the fact it’s an Omega Geneve.

clockoclock · Sun. 4:30pm

Davidt
It’s exactly what it is. It is an Omega Geneve. It’s utter crap with a shitty redial but it doesn’t change the fact it’s an Omega Geneve.

Only because some Indian wrote the text “Geneve”.

Davidt · Sun. 5:08pm

No. It’s an Omega Geneve case, likely the original movement and the dial was a Geneve before it was repainted.

MtV · Sun. 5:54pm

C clockoclock
Only because some Indian wrote the text “Geneve”.

Take a red Volkswagen Golf and paint it green. It’ll still be a Golf.

Also, no need for the „some Indian“-slur.

clockoclock · 2026-06-08T00:12:18-0500

Davidt
No. It’s an Omega Geneve case, likely the original movement and the dial was a Geneve before it was repainted.

I’m aware the cases and movements in these are usually real, although often put together from different watches, but the dial is repainted and lumed into a style that was never used on Genèves. A Frankenwatch. Not genuine.

MtV
Also, no need for the „some Indian“-slur.

Racist? How? Aren’t people in India called Indians? If it was made in Germany by “some German”, would you have been racist-hunting?

JimInOz · 2026-06-08T00:32:44-0500

C clockoclock
A Frankenwatch. Not genuine.

Unless the watch is cobbled together with parts from various models, it's not a franken.
If it's all original but the dial has been re-finished, then it's a redial.

There is a major seller of this style of watch that just came up in another thread. The seller describes the dials so there is no subterfuge there.

Davidt · 2026-06-08T02:01:40-0500

C clockoclock
I’m aware the cases and movements in these are usually real, although often put together from different watches, but the dial is repainted and lumed into a style that was never used on Genèves. A Frankenwatch. Not genuine.

Racist? How? Aren’t people in India called Indians? If it was made in Germany by “some German”, would you have been racist-hunting?

This is the last I’m going to say on this but these watches aren’t often out together. It’s easy and cheap find these watches in poor condition so there’s no need for sellers to waste time pulling parts together from different sources. They simply find one of these entry level Omegas in poor condition and redial them.

Finally, a ‘franken watch’ and ‘not genuine’ and two different things. A franken is made from genuine parts from different watches, usually that didn’t leave the factory in that configuration. ‘Not genuine’ means the parts weren’t made by Omega of their suppliers.

You keep using the terms fake and ‘not genuine’. These aren’t correct for these watches. They’re genuine watches, often in poor condition, that have fantasy redials.

MtV · 2026-06-08T03:52:24-0500

C clockoclock
Racist? How? Aren’t people in India called Indians? If it was made in Germany by “some German”, would you have been racist-hunting?

Well, thanks for calling yourself out. Not gonna respond to those rather strange argument. You know very well there was no relation to India until you started it, you knew very well it had a negative connotation, becoming strangely over-defensive now doesn’t change that.

Davidt
This is the last I’m going to say on this

Likewise, everything’s been said in every respect.

There‘s a difference between looking for experts‘ opinions and looking for confirmation and the people who’re after the latter rarely realize that.

padders · 2026-06-08T04:03:28-0500

Umm to be fair, Mumbai Specials as mentioned by the OP in his first post are a thing so from one POV there is a link to India if indeed you suppose these kind of fantasy redials to have been produced there. I’m personally not convinced. I’ve seen similar emanating from various parts of Asia and beyond. Vietnam for instance has its fair share of these and there are so many in the UK market it is just possible some are locally produced

I don’t think we need to start a witch hunt for implied racism based on any of the above.

clockoclock · 2026-06-08T09:53:02-0500

Davidt
This is the last I’m going to say on this but these watches aren’t often out together. It’s easy and cheap find these watches in poor condition so there’s no need for sellers to waste time pulling parts together from different sources. They simply find one of these entry level Omegas in poor condition and redial them.

Finally, a ‘franken watch’ and ‘not genuine’ and two different things. A franken is made from genuine parts from different watches, usually that didn’t leave the factory in that configuration. ‘Not genuine’ means the parts weren’t made by Omega of their suppliers.

You keep using the terms fake and ‘not genuine’. These aren’t correct for these watches. They’re genuine watches, often in poor condition, that have fantasy redials.

I meant the Railmaster style dial isn’t a genuine style when it comes to the Genève line of watches. Often these are Frankens too.

MtV
Well, thanks for calling yourself out. Not gonna respond to those rather strange argument. You know very well there was no relation to India until you started it, you knew very well it had a negative connotation, becoming strangely over-defensive now doesn’t change that.

They’re called Mumbai specials for a reason, live with it. Playing the race card when you have absolutely 0 of anything else to contribute is just pathetic.

JimInOz
Unless the watch is cobbled together with parts from various models, it's not a franken.
If it's all original but the dial has been re-finished, then it's a redial.

There is a major seller of this style of watch that just came up in another thread. The seller describes the dials so there is no subterfuge there.

He’s honest about what he’s selling.

But here we have an auction house with a deceptive tactic. Not telling what something is, is also a form of lying. It’s sly and dishonest. And that is what the problem is here. Now, I don’t have a problem with seeing these watches sell for 20 or 40 or even 150€ but clearly, unsuspecting buyers think they are buying a rarity and are trying to outbid each other for something not worth it. And as Davidt points out, they’re often in poor condition.

gatorcpa · 2026-06-08T15:55:01-0500

C clockoclock
Not telling what something is, is also a form of lying. It’s sly and dishonest. And that is what the problem is here.

I'm not sure that you can equate ignorance and dishonesty. It may be that the law in Finland requires sellers to accept returns where a description of an item is materially incorrect, even if the misstatement is inadvertent. I have heard of this in other EU countries. However, it is my understanding that licensed auctioneers are generally exempt from these return requirements, so long as they disclose that the goods are sold "as is, where is".

It would be nice if auctioneers would take the time to learn something about what it is there are selling, particularly when they are charging up to 30% in buyer's fees (not to mention what they are charging the seller, too!).

When one buys at an auction house other than eBay, it is Caveat Emptor. That is Latin for Buyer Beware.
gatorcpa

ghce · 2026-06-08T15:59:22-0500

gatorcpa
I'm not sure that you can equate ignorance and dishonesty. It may be that the law in Finland requires sellers to accept returns where a description of an item is materially incorrect, even if the misstatement is inadvertent. I have heard of this in other EU countries. However, it is my understanding that licensed auctioneers are generally exempt from these return requirements, so long as they disclose that the goods are sold "as is, where is".

It would be nice if auctioneers would take the time to learn something about what it is there are selling, particularly when they are charging up to 30% in buyer's fees (not to mention what they are charging the seller, too!).

When one buys at an auction house other than eBay, it is Caveat Emptor. That is Latin for Buyer Beware.
gatorcpa

The difference between ignorance and wilful ignorance. I have seen this many times from auction houses.

clockoclock · 2026-06-09T00:06:25-0500

gatorcpa
I'm not sure that you can equate ignorance and dishonesty. It may be that the law in Finland requires sellers to accept returns where a description of an item is materially incorrect, even if the misstatement is inadvertent. I have heard of this in other EU countries. However, it is my understanding that licensed auctioneers are generally exempt from these return requirements, so long as they disclose that the goods are sold "as is, where is".

It would be nice if auctioneers would take the time to learn something about what it is there are selling, particularly when they are charging up to 30% in buyer's fees (not to mention what they are charging the seller, too!).

When one buys at an auction house other than eBay, it is Caveat Emptor. That is Latin for Buyer Beware.
gatorcpa

Generally it is safe to buy on auctions and most auction houses describe the goods correct (running, not running, service needed etc) and there’s a right of return and also, if the goods are in worse condition than expected or what is reasonable to assume what the seller must’ve known, a possibility to negotiate the price down if it requires a service/repair.
Many auction houses don’t write anything when the goods are ok. Only if there’s an issue, there’s a mention.
With this particular auction houses it’s really dodgy. Sometimes they write the goods have not been tested, sometimes they write the goods are working and other times there’s no mention of anything. I know this is their system to trick bidders. They’re like the Kremlin of auctioneers. They have a completely contradictory MO when “informing”. The Cosmic I bought didn’t have any mention, so I took a chance. Another Omega I bought previously was the same. No mention, but it was running flawlessly. Of course, selling the Mumbai specials (Mumbai, formerly Bombay, is in India) saying they’re running but withholding information they’re redials (something their expert to 100% must’ve known) is dishonest. And you see the result, they made 1000€ on selling a couple of watches not worth more than 100€ together …

Mumbai Railmaster style Geneves

clockoclock

JimInOz

clockoclock

Davidt

clockoclock

Davidt

clockoclock

Davidt

MtV

clockoclock

JimInOz

Davidt

MtV

padders

clockoclock

gatorcpa

ghce

clockoclock

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