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Movement comparison (for dummies please)

  1. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Feb 25, 2015

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    Here's a line inquiry for the watchmaker members and experts. If we forget the brand, prestige and history attached to some iconic pieces, how do the movements compare?

    I'm at the moment curious about Chrono movements like Speedy Pro 321 versus pre daytona rolex. 821 versus Daytona zenith modified movement and modern Daytona rolex.movement versus current speedy Pro automatic. Then of course we can add the actual zenith Primero, but I believe the speedy like Daytona pulsating at 28800 versus the 36000 of the Primero. But what, aside from the chronographic detailing does this differential in pulsation bring, or is it a red herring when there are other factors in this movements that go beyond pulsation.?
     
    noelekal likes this.
  2. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Feb 25, 2015

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    Speedys are much slower, 21,600 for the 861 while the 321 beats at 18,000, exactly half of the El Primero's frequency. Given its a movement comparison lets also try to keep the words prestige, status and perceived value out of the discussion to make it more interesting. :coffee:

    [​IMG]

    Incidentally I still contend the above is the most suitable solution to the debate as indecision can be highly rewarding.
     
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  3. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Feb 25, 2015

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    That's exactly the Daytona I'm looking to buy. Love it.

    Agreed on just focusing on movements without regards for their cases and Brand appeal.

    So the 861 speedy pulsates 6 times per second, that's an strange number? I seem to count 20 pulsations every 5 seconds on the chrono 0f my speedy (1861) that makes sense to me for the sake of accuracy as then you know you're measuring 0.25 second increments. Or is the Chrono pulsating at a different frequency from the watch second dial?
     
  4. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Feb 25, 2015

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    You could write a book (or two) exploring what seems like a simple question like this...I'll give a few quick points.

    People will tell you that the faster the beat rate, the more accurate a watch will be. This in technical terms is false, sort of. If you look at some of the most accurate clocks and marine chronometers, they have very low beat rates, so if this "faster = more accurate" were really true, then they would not be as accurate as they are.

    One advantage a faster beat rate has on a chronograph, is that the faster the hand ticks, the smaller the measurement of time you can time with the watch. Look at the extremely fast timers made by Tag for example. Very high frequencies of the chronograph section allow very small time increments to be measured.

    In general though for watches that are not necessarily chronographs, a faster beat rate will mean a faster recovery time. What I mean by that is when a wrist watch is worn daily, the beat rate is not constant like it is with the watch sitting on a table. Not only is the timing affected by positional variation (which is a static measurement in positions) but also by disturbances of the balance wheel motion from external forces. Larger/heavier/slower balances recover their normal rate after a disturbance much slower than a smaller/lighter/faster balance does. So improved accuracy can come from the fact that the rate of the watch resumes its normal pace more quickly after a disturbance.

    But in my view a fast beat rate is a trade off. In my experience servicing 36,000 beat watches you tend to see more wear on components than you do on lower beat watches. I recall servicing one vintage Grand Seiko that was a 36,000 watch, and the wear was quite incredible - even pallet stones were worn. The watch also used a remarkably strong mainspring for the size of the watch - the strength was more what I am used to seeing in pocket watches than in wrist watches. My feeling is that this is why Rolex reduced the beat rate in the El Primero movements they fitted in the Daytona, simply because they wanted a more reliable watch long term.

    Anyway, a few thoughts to get the discussion started...

    Cheers, Al
     
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  5. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Feb 25, 2015

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    Thank you Al, As always great stuff. Now, how do these compare in terms of longevity, quality and overall performance?