Metric vs English lugs sizes?

JwRosenthal · Jun 28, 2020

Greetings all,

I have a newish factory 3010 with 511 endlinks that came on my ‘57 2949 (bracelet is the most recent one that’s available from Omega). I tried to mount it on my 2577 and it wouldn’t go on as much as I fussed. I was baffled and took out my calipers to realize that the 511’s measure 17.97 and the lugs on my 2577 measure 17.75.
It has been pretty commonly agreed here that the 11/12/511/512 endlinks will fit all the fat lugged Seamaster’s (as well as the 14xxx and 166.010 series) - but is this incorrect? Is perhaps my 2577 a US market watch with English lug width (11/16th)? Or were the earlier (‘48-‘53) Seamaster’s indeed 17.75mm and not 18mm, thus requiring a different endlink?

felsby · Jun 28, 2020

Dang, I just sold my 2577. Maybe @hejsam can check?

hejsam · Jun 28, 2020

I’m away for a couple of days atm, will measure the lugs when I get back.
But pretty sure my lugs are 18mm and not 17.75mm since my 18mm bracelet and straps are fitting! 😀

JwRosenthal · Jun 28, 2020

I took the calipers to them again- they are 17.75 on both sides (Lucas suggested maybe one lug got bent so I checked again. Even 18mm straps are a snug fit (cram) so it’s not just the bracelet. I’ll borrow another set of calipers from my friend just to make sure it’s not my measurements that are off- but those bloody endlink were not going in and snapped into the 2949 without issue.

The watch in question (pardon the aftermarket crystal retaining ring covering part of the dial- a correct one is on the way).

killer67 · Jun 28, 2020

^ who makes the nice green suede strap?

JwRosenthal · Jun 28, 2020

K killer67
^ who makes the nice green suede strap?

Watchgecko- they did a “heritage” style line in a bunch of colors, I got the blue and green.

https://www.watchgecko.com/chedworth-suede-handmade-watch-strap

Then they did the same style in a Horween leather and I got black (not on a watch at the moment), camel and red in those.

https://www.watchgecko.com/geckota-kington-vintage-style-dress-watch-strap

I need to get more. Nicely done fun straps for little money.

X350 XJR · Jun 28, 2020

JwRosenthal
Greetings all,

I have a newish factory 3010 with 511 endlinks that came on my ‘57 2949 (bracelet is the most recent one that’s available from Omega). I tried to mount it on my 2577 and it wouldn’t go on as much as I fussed. I was baffled and took out my calipers to realize that the 511’s measure 17.97 and the lugs on my 2577 measure 17.75.
It has been pretty commonly agreed here that the 11/12/511/512 endlinks will fit all the fat lugged Seamaster’s (as well as the 14xxx and 166.010 series) - but is this incorrect? Is perhaps my 2577 a US market watch with English lug width (11/16th)? Or were the earlier (‘48-‘53) Seamaster’s indeed 17.75mm and not 18mm, thus requiring a different endlink?

Might just be an oddball batch. I've checked several of mine and all are 18mm. You're watch movement is not marked OXG, so it would not be a US market watch. Remember since these were supplied on straps no one would have noticed something like this until they tried fitting a bracelet and a watchmaker at the time would have just filed the end links and said nothing.

JwRosenthal · Jun 28, 2020

X350 XJR
Might just be an oddball batch. I've checked several of mine and all are 18mm. You're watch movement is not marked OXG, so it would not be a US market watch. Remember since these were supplied on straps no one would have noticed something like this until they tried fitting a bracelet and a watchmaker at the time would have just filed the end links and said nothing.

This I can see- we sometimes forget that despite the huge volume of watches these companies were making much of the business was a cottage industry with changes on the fly, different parts suppliers and spec’s that were sometimes loosely followed. We get so mired down in matching date codes and year correct buckles- but they really just threw on what they had and called it a sale.
I’ll get a second set of calipers and see what they say but the oddity of the mismatched sizes still has me puzzled.

felsby · Jun 29, 2020

JwRosenthal
I took the calipers to them again- they are 17.75 on both sides (Lucas suggested maybe one lug got bent so I checked again. Even 18mm straps are a snug fit (cram) so it’s not just the bracelet. I’ll borrow another set of calipers from my friend just to make sure it’s not my measurements that are off- but those bloody endlink were not going in and snapped into the 2949 without issue.
The watch in question (pardon the aftermarket crystal retaining ring covering part of the dial- a correct one is on the way).

That watch will only give you problems. Better sell it, to me, preferably 😁

amcclell · Jun 29, 2020

I know this thread is about lug size but the waffle dial Bulova is spectacular. 👍

killer67 · Jun 29, 2020

JwRosenthal
Watchgecko- they did a “heritage” style line in a bunch of colors, I got the blue and green.

cheers for that - looking now. That Bulova is 👍 Is it in the Bulova thread?

JwRosenthal · Jun 29, 2020

K killer67
cheers for that - looking now. That Bulova is 👍 Is it in the Bulova thread?

I believe I posted it long ago. It’s a show stopper for sure and I feel lucky to own it. What I love about this group is every time I post that thing in reference to something (be it Bulova, waffle dials, butterscotch lume, straps), it always gets compliments- which shows that this is a group of people who can truly appreciate great watches be them $100k PP’s or $150 Bulovas.

killer67 · Jun 29, 2020

JwRosenthal
I believe I posted it long ago. It’s a show stopper for sure and I feel lucky to own it. What I love about this group is every time I post that thing in reference to something (be it Bulova, waffle dials, butterscotch lume, straps), it always gets compliments- which shows that this is a group of people who can truly appreciate great watches be them $100k PP’s or $150 Bulovas.

that beauty has it all; 3,6,9,12 dial, patina, unique cushion case, coffin markers, HC dial with inner ring minute track, alpha hands, blued seconds hand

JwRosenthal · Jun 29, 2020

K killer67
that beauty has it all; 3,6,9,12 dial, patina, unique cushion case, coffin markers, HC dial with inner ring minute track, alpha hands, blued seconds hand

I always like to think of it as “crab lugged”, but I do live in Maryland so maybe I am a little biased.😉
Not that I want the market to explode on vintage Bulova (cheap thrills for me) but other than the 666 series and Accu Astronauts, I think the brand gets very little love, and they were top notch all the way through the late 60’s with some very unique and archetypal designs of their respective periods.

amcclell · Jun 29, 2020

When I was young, and growing up in a working class family, Bulova watches were held in high esteem. My father gave my mothe an Accutron for Christmas one year and everyone made a big deal about it. My grandfather, who was an ironworker had a solid gold 23 jewel automatic Bulova that was given to him for 25 years of service to the Toronto Ironworks. At the Canadian National Exhibition, there was an observation tower that you could climb and it had a great big Bulova sign and digital clock at the top. The Bulova tower was a common place to meet-up with people at because it was a well known landmark. I have a soft spot for this old brand.

JwRosenthal · Jun 29, 2020

amcclell
When I was young, and growing up in a working class family, Bulova watches were held in high esteem. My father gave my mothe an Accutron for Christmas one year and everyone made a big deal about it. My grandfather, who was an ironworker had a solid gold 23 jewel automatic Bulova that was given to him for 25 years of service to the Toronto Ironworks. At the Canadian National Exhibition, there was an observation tower that you could climb and it had a great big Bulova sign and digital clock at the top. The Bulova tower was a common place to meet-up with people at because it was a well known landmark. I have a soft spot for this old brand.

My grandmother wore my uncle Laury’s gold plated Bulova on stretchy bracelet my entire childhood- it was one of those family pieces that everyone spoke of- Uncle Laury’s Gold Bulova. When she died my brother (Laury’s namesake) got the watch...I was always jealous. Flash forward 30 years, it is just a gold plated Bulova in poor condition, but my brother had it serviced, and he still wears it from time to time...not sure if he ditched the stretchy bracelet. As you said, among working class families in the US, Bulova was tops- what is a Rolex isn’t it one of those fancy German cameras?

amcclell · Jun 29, 2020

I missed out on my grandfather's solid gold Bulova and kicked myself because I had a chance to get it 15 years ago when my grandmother died. My nephew ended up with it. He takes great care of it and wears it with pride, so it makes me happy when I see it on his wrist.

JwRosenthal · Jun 30, 2020

Ok- back to the subject at hand- as requested by @Lucasssssss and I’m sure to satisfy the requesting input from @X350 XJR , here are measurements with fresh calipers.

Lucasssssss · Jun 30, 2020

X350 XJR
Might just be an oddball batch. I've checked several of mine and all are 18mm. You're watch movement is not marked OXG, so it would not be a US market watch. Remember since these were supplied on straps no one would have noticed something like this until they tried fitting a bracelet and a watchmaker at the time would have just filed the end links and said nothing.

I think this is the most likely answer.

If anyone has any which measure a similar size, I would be interested to hear, as this might change my opinion.

X350 XJR · Jun 30, 2020

Digging through my BOR stash I found a pair of number 11s filed down to fit something, perhaps another 2577 with under-size lugs?