Dear Friends, I have this unusual watch. The watch is original and never was touched. I know Chuck Maddoz expeculated about it in Appendix A: Speedmaster Mark Series Oddities... (see: http://www.chronomaddox.com/MarkSeries.html )

I can afirm that the watch is absolutely original and was buyed by my grandfather in 1970. View attachment 53449

At this moment is in the Omega Official Service in BA-Arg. No one can explain to me why the speedy has this unusual dial but Omega said everything is original and no one part was replaced.

Somebody can help me. Here is te information

As you see is cleary: Speedmaster Pre Moon, Ref: 145012 68 SP, Cal 861. But here is the problems
The serial number is 2.514.617 (yes, seven digits, no 8)
The dial says MARKII wich is absolutly unusual to moonwatch case...

Look at this example inside Kesaharu Imai, Omega Speedmaster book (1958 CK 2998 cal 321 with "Racing MarkII dial"


Thanks in advance, Ricardo.

 

Ricardo welcome.

photos of your watch, including the movement and case back interior, will help us offer sensible ideas.

there are a few of these watches around, but I am suspect they are modifications. After all, the MKII dials will not have been available until approximately four years after the last 145.012 was built.

 

View attachment 53470 The movement The caseback

 

The movement

 

I think movement should be copperplated if it is from -68?

 

That is a franken lemania project someone threw together...

This is a real racing dial '69 speedmaster with an 861 movement

 

Wow, Chuck Maddox was just freaking prolific. What an icon.

 

Yes it's a Lemania based assembly. The seven digits alerted me but did not want to say without photos.
love the 69 racing dial shown by Kringkily. I think I remember seeing a 321 version?
also there are several images floating around of examples of MKII racing dials on 861's, that while they surely must be put togethers, appear contemporary.

i like them all.

 

And here is some of mine.


An Original MkII, a Japan special, and a home made MKII to Moon case transplant

 

Dear Omega Friends, thank you very much. My Speedy "Mark II" belong to my grandfather, I do know how or when he buyed it. Will be a mistery for me because he died 5 years ago.

Best regards, Thanks again, Ricardo BA, Argentina

 

I hope it solves some answers and with Omega telling you it is all original that really worries me as they should be able to tell right away that movement is not an Omega movement...

 

Dear Master Kringkily

In my research I found in a history book that in the late sixties omega used Lemania movements in some chronographs with the great commercial demand. Particularly these movements would have been used in the transition between the 321 and 861. Is important to say that in those years Omega - . Lemania were part of the same business group . In fact in the book The Moon watch ( Published by Omega ) page 56 says : difficult to assess the influence of René Meylan , Director of Lemania , ( in designing the Speedmaster ) ... Lemania begins production in January 1957 ... ( page 59) The subsidiary of Omega ( Lemania ) had 548 employees for the production of movements speedmaster .. began manufacturing in 1965 and the first mounted in 1968 ( page 62 ) the mechanism of finely crafted pieces of steel were the cotes style Joux Valley ( page 59)
My grandfather obteined that watch in the first years of the seventies . Never was armed outside of the factory . Also at that time I doubt my grandfather would have gotten the original dial and hands from the factory in Biel . Today it is very easy to get these dials in many ebay sites . I doubt it has been so easy in those years.

The same Omega Oficial Book, page 148 says that Mark II 145014 with racing dial was launched in 1969. Could be posible a misxture between speedmaster case and Mark II dial inside Omega factory ?
Would love to hear your opinion .

Thanks for your expensive tima, Ricardo.

 

An Omega watch produced in the series would have a 8 digit reference while lemania movements are with 7. There is no way Omega would be mixing pieces such as the one for your grandfather's piece. There was also no Mark II dial placed in a Speedy case as they created the Mark II for that specific case. You can see how my dial differs from yours with the classic stepped dial and Omega Speedmaster Professional with no Mark II lettering. I understand the reference and how Lemania and Omega's history crossed path but mixing parts is something that wouldn't happen like that. The only other time I have seen a lemania movement like that was when they frankened the 345.0809 moonphase watch with some drilled cases, a replacement lemania movement and some weird modified moonphase dial. I don't know what happened throughout all the years that was was owned but it definitely didn't come that way from factory.

 

this is a original 1970 Racing like Kringkily's Speed

 

Thank you very much for the answer, ¿ wath can you tell me about those pictures ? (Mark II dial in CK 2998 Ref betwen 1959-1962)



Thanks, Ricardo.

 

It was clearly a modification. That book is full of errors...

 

Dsio, perfect answer!! This is absollutely logical. It cant be Professional dial before Ed White EVA !!!

Thanks, Ricardo.

 

Mystery revealed. Omega World Service in BA Confirmed: Tissot Calibre 872-3. Clearly my grandfather got this watch off factory assembly.

Anyway it is still important to me as part of the family. It will join to my personal collection of original Omegas.

Thanks to every one to help me and learn. Best regards, Ricardo BA-ARG