To follow up on my last post ("SS v. Gold Fill" which is still open for comments), I wanted to know about how manual wind v. automatic factors in to a vintage Longines buying decision. What are the pros and cons of each? It seems like a willingness to get a manual wind can allow you to access some nicer overall models that at a lower price point compared to if the same watch was an automatic. Are there any specific models of either movement which are really great to look for in a classic everyday-wear dress watch?

 

Some lines came in either manual or auto, but they certainly weren't the same watches. It's not exactly like ordering a car with a stick or automatic transmission. The Flagship first came with manual calibers, and a few years later started being offered with automatics but in different case references. If manual, the 30L (subdial seconds) or 30LS (center sweep seconds) are the ones to go for. Later models sometimes came with the non-inhouse 490's (based on Marvin movements) which were nice but not as sought after. In automatic, look for a 34x series powered model. Some self winding Flagships came with the Cyma based calibers rebadged as the 380 - very nice, but not in-house and therefore not as valuable. An in-house caliber is worth several hundred more than a rebadge movement based on another manufacturer's movement.

 

Helpful has always, Dennis. Do you or anyone else have any other thoughts on advantages/disadvantages. E.g. Is it frustrating to have to wind a watch almost daily? Or do you enjoy it? Is maintenance more on manual wind or automatics, or are they the same?

 

Not at all frustrating, and usually enjoyable. Once you get up to your eyeballs in this hobby you end up with so many watches you can't feasibly keep them all on a winder so most of us end up setting and winding the watch choice of the day in the morning regardless of it being automatic or manual. As one infamous watchmaker aptly said "If you owned a vintage Ferrari, would you keep it running in the driveway?". No harm in letting a watch run down and sit for a few days, weeks, or even months.

I have a 4 head winder. I keep the triple date / moonphase on one head because it's a p.i.t.a. to set. My two day off watches are on other heads (Breitling Chrono Cockpit and Omega Aqua Terra) because I want to be able to grab and go with either. The last head usually has the most recent purchase on it so I can wear it a few times until the initial thrill has worn off and then it gets put back into general population.

Yes, maintenance on an auto is slightly more than a manual caliber. There's more to disassemble, clean, and relubricate. Reverser wheels need special attention so they function properly under the constant motion. Essentially, an automatic is a manual wind caliber with a self winding apparatus attached. More parts = more time involved = more cost.

 

Nice system Dennis! As I've added a few more watches this summer just can't keep them all going any more...

 

Good point wrt crown design. Personally, a crown design may not necessarily be the feature that would trump another model, but your point is a good one. I own a modern Rado that -using Dennis term- is a p.i.t.a. to set time & wind precisely because of its crown design---I know very well the feeling of shaved skin from my fingers during the winding process.

 

Point to Rich for that tip about the crown. The flatter decagon crown that came as original equipment on the early 60's Constellations is difficult to use, particularly when it's snug against the case when you're winding the watch. The newer replacement model is a little taller and easier to use, but a completely different design like a serrated style would make it less of a chore.

 

Great thoughts. I really enjoy the well of considerations the forum allows me to consider! Is there any difference with regards to accuracy? And, since this is the Longines forum, which models should I look for as a solid everyday wearer? I understand it more with Omega, e.g. Constellation is outta range, but SM is about the quality obtainable range

 

Yes and no. Theoretically there shouldn't be, but since most watches are designed to keep more accurate time in the top half of the wind state an automatic would keep slightly better time since it keeps the mainspring more fully wound.

The Constellation and Conquest were direct competitors for the top of the line automatic dress watches.

Flagships can be anywhere from top of the line (inhouse manual 30L or automatic 34x) to middle / upper middle (rebadged manual 490 or automatic 380).

For what you want, try the Admiral series. They could have inhouse automatic 34x/35x calibers in dress watch form, or rebadged Record 195x automatic calibers (marked as the Longines 50x series). These Admirals started in 1959-ish and ran into the late 60's. The later 60's and early 70's models had either the 50x series or high beat inhouse automatics from the 28.8k bph 664x/665x series which were detuned versions of the 43x 36k bph Ultra-Chron calibers, or manual wind versions of the 28.8k bph calibers. All these are solid watches, and again the inhouse movements are more valuable. The Admiral series sells for several hundred less than a Flagship with the equivalent caliber and condition. There's also the Grand Prize, which came in many of the same front loading cases as the early Admiral dress watches and used the 34x/35x calibers.

There's also the non-series watches that housed manual wind 30L calibers or automatic 34x/35x calibers. These may be the best bargains out there. Of course collectors want a name on the dial, but that adds $$$ to the purchase price. For instance, a stainless steel Flagship with a 30L might run $1000+ if it were in the same condition as the no-name 30L shown below which was bought for just over $600.








There's also the high beat Ultra-Chron series, but the 36k bph calibers require more maintenance. You can find a nice stainless specimen for $500 or less though.

 

I oogle the pictures of that Longines every time they resurface on this site. That's what I am after, simple, sleek, no bells and whistles, just great guts inside. I don't mind at all that it is a no-name model. In many ways I think the name of the maker speaks enough. I like the admirals, I just would prefer one without the 5 stars. Something a bit too close to wearing a uniform and never serving. I know, probably just me, but that's how I feel. Did Longines ever make SS models with gold hands and appointments? I think that would be perfect as I want gold on the watch to make it a bit more formal, but can't (barring really amazing deal) go solid gold due to budget. Yet if its SS I won't have to worry about the gold plate having wear spots. Believe it or not, I am not looking to start a collection (although I know it would be fun). I am looking to just get one beautiful, beautiful, clean watch, that I can wear to work everyday and then pass it down, Not pass it down because of its valuable, but because its a well made piece of machinery that is still functional and beautiful. I actually really like when I see the vintage watches with engraving on the back for "25 years of service" or what have you. These belonged to men who likely were not making big bucks, yet still knew quality and they probably wore those watches with pride.

 

Okay, now we are 5 years later. With your keen interest and probing questions, did you somehow manage to not become a watch collector?