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Lume Degradation (Vintage)

Gopher
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See photo below of a 1960s UG dial. I am trying to determine what happened to this lume. The green coloration is not so unusual or woirrisome to me (I have others like this) but what might be causing the lume to move beyond the hour marker? Is this water damage? Was it a bad relume that is disintegrating? Is it normal age-related disintegration of the original lume? Is it mold? Something else?

Lume 12.jpg


I have not run across this type of degradation before, so any insights will be appreciated!
 
Gopher
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
That lume got really wet.

That is what I figured but then why does the rest of the dial look so good? I would expect other moisture damage. As far as I can tell, it is original and clean.
 
JwRosenthal
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Lume is like a sponge. It will absorb moisture like a desiccant. It will swell and shift like you see on this watch, then dry out and shrink back up leaving traces of its movement, sometimes getting blobby. Depending how long it stayed damp will determine if it gets moldy.
Depending on the surface of the dial, moisture may have evaporated from the surface without trace (you see this sometimes with matte or satin dials like on Speedmasters), but I’m sure if you look at that dial without a crystal, you will see some traces of spotting if it was damp enough.
 
Gopher
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
Lume is like a sponge. It will absorb moisture like a desiccant. It will swell and shift like you see on this watch, then dry out and shrink back up leaving traces of its movement, sometimes getting blobby. Depending how long it stayed damp will determine if it gets moldy.
Depending on the surface of the dial, moisture may have evaporated from the surface without trace (you see this sometimes with matte or satin dials like on Speedmasters), but I’m sure if you look at that dial without a crystal, you will see some traces of spotting if it was damp enough.

Great insight, thank you! It's always tricky dealing with just photos.
 
JwRosenthal
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Gopher Gopher
Great insight, thank you! It's always tricky dealing with just photos.
If the dial is in nice shape and the watch is “worth it”, a sympathetic relume can do wonders. Some collectors cringe at the idea of removing original material, but I would frankly prefer a relumed dial/hands over a nasty one
 
Gopher
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
If the dial is in nice shape and the watch is “worth it”, a sympathetic relume can do wonders. Some collectors cringe at the idea of removing original material, but I would frankly prefer a relumed dial/hands over a nasty one

Well said. I feel the same. Of course original is best but if it's really rough like this one, a good relume is better to me. This lume is no longer in original condition anyway. I think some collectors go overboard on originality.

Similarly, I have a classic 1960s car. I restored it but to original spec, and kept as many original parts as possible. I had no interest in a rusty vehicle.
 
M'Bob
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
If the dial is in nice shape and the watch is “worth it”, a sympathetic relume can do wonders. Some collectors cringe at the idea of removing original material, but I would frankly prefer a relumed dial/hands over a nasty one

I agree, this originality thing at all costs can go too far. “Don’t open the case back! You’ll release the original air from 1969!”
 
Gopher
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
D3FE2FDE-8065-4523-BD59-577C45C2F2A9.jpeg 032A9E7F-B564-4F74-8AC1-4DFA9753BAB5.jpeg

Hard to argue with that restoration, especially the hands. Looks great.

Can you please PM me on who did the work?
 
JwRosenthal
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Gopher Gopher
Hard to argue with that restoration, especially the hands. Looks great.

Can you please PM me on who did the work?
Was done by a friend (not a watchmaker) who is very talented (and does insane color matching) but won’t do work for others as he doesn’t want the liability. I’ve told him he could do well at watch restoration as a side gig but he enjoys the hobby and doesn’t want to make it a “job”. This was early work from him, he’s gotten better.

Not sure who does relume work in the US, but James Hyman is the go-to in the UK.
 
Gopher
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Not bad at all. I am familiar with James but also not aware of anyone recommended in the US.
 
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