Louis Brandt & Frere Omega

David Windsor · Nov 16, 2020

Hello to all my sisters and brothers who love that faint sound of the mechanical time piece.

Greetings from Canada. I've always loved mechanical watches, even as a child I'd hold them to my ear to listen to them tick. As a teen I lost my way and fell in with the digital crowd, and owned LED, calculator and databank watches. When I matured I found my way back, led by that faint tic-tic-tic sound.

Back in 2007, while going through our Dad's estate we found a pocket watch along with his Canada Post retirement wristwatch. No one knew anything about it, where or when he acquired it. I knew it was old and it had the word Omega on the dial, but no symbol. Honestly, at the time I thought it was a fake because of how plain the movement was. But it belonged my Dad so I popped it into my sock drawer where it mostly stayed.

But through my research I believe my Dad had a 1895 Louis Brant & Frere 19''' Omega LOB 15j, Maybe a railway edition based on the Canadian style dial.
I haven't removed the dial to get the movement serial number, yet.

Please comment and let me know if I'm in the ballpark or out to lunch.
Thank you.
David

Canuck · Nov 16, 2020

The serial number will not be on the dial. The front cover should open to expose the dial. Or is this n open faced watch, and you simply didn’t show th dial? If the face is covered, push the winding crown down to open the cover. I am surprised that there doesn’t appear to be a S# on the mechanism (the movement). There might be a serial number behind the dial. The serial number in the case back probably will not match the serial number on the movement (if there is one). The case is made of coin silver (.800 fine silver). Louis Brandt was the founder of the company that became Omega after Brandt’s death. But I’ll go out on a limb and predict the Brandt name will not appear on your watch. Early in the 20th century, Omega used the Brandt name primarily on railroad approved watches which yours is not. As to the vintage of yours, the serial number could give us an idea, but there is no factory based date/serial number list available. I’ll go out on a limb and suggest your watch will prove to be from an era after Louis Brandt & freres became Omega, circa 1903.

David Windsor · Nov 16, 2020

This one has the stepped balance cock with the Omega symbol and no other markings on the back of the movement, which was first used on the 1895 movement, I don't know if the style was still in use in 1903.

nicks · Nov 16, 2020

Interesting family heirloom. I think the 24-hour inner dial markings were likely added by a local watchmaker, who repainted the "OMEGA".

Looks as if the case and movement were always together.

JimInOz · Nov 16, 2020

The case is European (Swiss and German hallmarks) and because of this, it's not a "railway" watch.
Canadian Railway watches would have been cased in the USA or Canada (@Canuck please confirm if I'm correct or not?).
Case serial number would put it around 1900, give or take a few years.
The "Omega" on the dial is the correct font for that period, at the time some dials had Omega and the Ω symbol, some just had the Ω and some just had "Omega" and some had no marking, although they were correct Omegas.
I suspect the red 24 hour numbers were added at a later date.
Maybe owned by a military or nautical person who had it done? Who knows.

Canuck · Nov 16, 2020

Time service rules vary from railroad to railroad. American railroad approved movements were not always cased by the manufacturer. Movements would have been shipped without cases. It is natural that one of these movements shipped into Canada might be fitted with Canadian cases. But I don’t know if that was mandatory. After American makers started shipping their watches cased, it stands to reason that American railroad approved watches in Canada had American cases. Was it mandatory that SWISS railroad approved watches for use on a Canadian railroad be cased in a Canadian made case? I haven’t heard that. But I have heard that the Montreal Watch Case Co. did import lots of railroad approved Swiss movements without cases, which were destined to be fitted into cases of their own manufacture. The American Watch Case Co. also of Canada likely did the same. Resulting in many Swiss and American railroad approved movements being cased in Canadian cases. This also applied to non railroad approved watches. This was also true in England where Dennison imported movements destined to be cased in English cases..

David Windsor · Nov 16, 2020

nicks
Interesting family heirloom. I think the 24-hour inner dial markings were likely added by a local watchmaker, who repainted the "OMEGA".

Looks as if the case and movement were always together.

I thought it might have been added after, I've not seen any others with the same face markings.

David Windsor · Nov 16, 2020

Canuck
Time service rules vary from railroad to railroad. American railroad approved movements were not always cased by the manufacturer. Movements would have been shipped without cases. It is natural that one of these movements shipped into Canada might be fitted with Canadian cases. But I don’t know if that was mandatory. After American makers started shipping their watches cased, it stands to reason that American railroad approved watches in Canada had American cases. Was it mandatory that SWISS railroad approved watches for use on a Canadian railroad be cased in a Canadian made case? I haven’t heard that. But I have heard that the Montreal Watch Case Co. did import lots of railroad approved Swiss movements without cases, which were destined to be fitted into cases of their own manufacture. The American Watch Case Co. also of Canada likely did the same. Resulting in many Swiss and American railroad approved movements being cased in Canadian cases. This also applied to non railroad approved watches. This was also true in England where Dennison imported movements destined to be cased in English cases..

I did just find today on https://people.timezone.com/msandler/Articles/ClitheroeRailroad/Railroad.html a list of watches approved by the CPR in 1899, it does list 'Brandt' Omega, but theses movements were all marked as such, defiantly not this watch.

nicks · Nov 16, 2020

The big book Price Guide says that the Brandt-Omega watches that were approved for Canadian railway use (1899 to 1910) were 18 size and 16 size with either 23 or 19 jewel movements.

I think the jewel count on these would have been marked on the movement, but you never know.

Railway standards were loose and evolving rapidly in that period. Roman numeral hour markings were already on the way out by 1900, at least in the US.

David Windsor · Nov 16, 2020

nicks
The big book Price Guide says that the Brandt-Omega watches that were approved for Canadian railway use (1899 to 1910) were 18 size and 16 size with either 23 or 19 jewel movements.

I think the jewel count on these would have been marked on the movement, but you never know.

Railway standards were loose and evolving rapidly in that period. Roman numeral hour markings were already on the way out by 1900, at least in the US.

Very plain movement, no markings other than on the balance cock, but according to Twist of Time http://www.twistoftime.com/2016/06/03/counting-jewels-with-omega-part-ii/ with 3 press fit jewels and the screwed down balance wheel jewel this should be an Omega 19''' LOB 15j. Once I'm capable of safely disassembling I'll get the serial number off the front of the movement.

Canuck · Nov 17, 2020

I’ve shown my two Brandt CCR movements on the MB before. While they share a number of earmarks with the subject watch, there are many visual cues which help identify them as railroad approved, which the subject watch is not. The motor barrel, 19-jewels, patent regulator. The one most notable earmark that stands out is that they both are marked Timed to 5 Positions. The dials on both of mine are factory original 24-hour dials. Both are lever set which I suspect the subject watch is not. As to Omega-marked watches of the era of these watches being railroad approved? Could be, I suppose. But I don’t recall ever seeing an Omega that has the features that these Brandt’s have.

David Windsor · Nov 17, 2020

Canuck
I’ve shown my two Brandt CCR movements on the MB before. While they share a number of earmarks with the subject watch, there are many visual cues which help identify them as railroad approved, which the subject watch is not. The motor barrel, 19-jewels, patent regulator. The one most notable earmark that stands out is that they both are marked Timed to 5 Positions. The dials on both of mine are factory original 24-hour dials. Both are lever set which I suspect the subject watch is not. As to Omega-marked watches of the era of these watches being railroad approved? Could be, I suppose. But I don’t recall ever seeing an Omega that has the features that these Brandt’s have.

Beautiful Watch, I love the look of the Railway watches.

David Windsor · Jan 22, 2021

Ok, I got the watch out of its case and removed the dial. Serial number was on the front of the movement. I've ordered the archive extract. I know, it needs cleaning, I've just started my watch servicing course, it will wait until I can do it properly.

Louis Brandt & Frere Omega

David Windsor

Canuck

David Windsor

nicks

JimInOz

Canuck

David Windsor

David Windsor

nicks

David Windsor

Canuck

David Windsor

David Windsor

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