- Posts
- 2,820
- Likes
- 4,924
DirtyDozen12
·To dissect where an original watch went to on a forum and what /she makes on it is imho less than professional.
Longines Resales and misc transactions
- Posts
- 432
- Likes
- 741
JohnLy
·The question remains, why is it less than professional (i.e. unethical)? You mentioned that some watches are listed too low compared to the real market price. This might be true, but I fail to see how this points towards avoiding discussions about where a watch went and how much is being asked for it. You also mentioned that we are being ripped off elsewhere. Again, this might be true, but why is it wrong to talk about it? To me, it sounds like you are saying we should not be surprised that watches will be bought at one price and then sold for more, which I agree with. What I do not agree with, however, is the sentiment that it is wrong to discuss price fluctuations. Among other things, this forum is about giving people the opportunity to become informed buyers. Seeing what a watch sold for on this forum in April and then seeing how much is being asked for it in August is useful information to someone who wants to learn about the watch market. As with any information, the conclusions that are drawn from it may be reasonable or not, but dissuading discussion is counterproductive to learning.
I have no problem with discussing price fluctuations or if a person buys it at a lower price and sells it for a higher price. What I do have a problem with if an honest person (dealer or collector) buys one low and sells high and is then demonized for it. As long as the discussion stays civil/factual and to the subject matter, yes I find it interesting and informative. If it becomes a finger pointing good vs bad I don't see anything positive coming from the discussion.
- Posts
- 8,097
- Likes
- 28,526
Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberIf it becomes a finger pointing good vs bad I don't see anything positive coming from the discussion.
Well, perhaps it was a coincidence, but your original post appeared soon after @Syrte had posted a particular Longines, and a careful reading of her post reveals not only a rather large mark-up from the original selling price here on the forum, but more importantly, a blatant misrepresentation of the condition of watch. So as the current seller is not honest, I would argue that any related criticisms are fully warranted.
No one objects to a seller making a profit, but misrepresentations are a very different matter.
- Posts
- 432
- Likes
- 741
JohnLy
·Well, perhaps it was a coincidence, but your original post appeared soon after @Syrte had posted a particular Longines, and a careful reading of her post reveals not only a rather large mark-up from the original selling price here on the forum, but more importantly, a blatant misrepresentation of the condition of watch. So as the current seller is not honest, I would argue that any related criticisms are fully warranted.
No one objects to a seller making a profit, but misrepresentations are a very different matter.
I agree but that was not my point. If there was a blatant misrepresentation it should be pointed out. But if someone is being criticized for in their opinion price gouging or just making an error I don't see the value in it. Not to make it personal but just factual.
- Posts
- 2,820
- Likes
- 4,924
DirtyDozen12
·I have no problem with discussing price fluctuations or if a person buys it at a lower price and sells it for a higher price. What I do have a problem with if an honest person (dealer or collector) buys one low and sells high and is then demonized for it. As long as the discussion stays civil/factual and to the subject matter, yes I find it interesting and informative. If it becomes a finger pointing good vs bad I don't see anything positive coming from the discussion.
- Posts
- 7,651
- Likes
- 21,952
Syrte
·Imho if a watch is NOT right then for sure one can be critical and comment.
On IG and elsewhere, I watch people blindly like something that is not original merely because someone who supposedly knows more than you is promoting it and a range of other professionals et al clap like seals. 97% of Tiffany dials are fake.. and one only needs to look at old Tiffany ads to see that most watches sold by Tiffany were not embellished with a logo. We have new watches that have never appeared in a catalogue over 40 years suddenly appearing and corroborated by dealer A and B.
To dissect where an original watch went to on a forum and what /she makes on it is imho less than professional. On many occasions it may have been listed far too low in the first place compared to the real market price.
My Pakistani mate said when money is lost nothing is lost, but when health is lost, all is lost! I guess if it doesn't effect your health.. then be happy.
Hey Andy,
Hope you’ve been well, I agree mostly with all you say, but personally I’m always interested in keeping track of the market and where watches end up for what price.
Also, this is a community of enthusiasts and the watches being offered for sale here are often offered at “mate’s price” because indeed the principle of the forum is that it’s not a professional watch fair.
We are all guests here, and those who use this place as a place to source watches at a price which allows them to make a profit and a living, as you rightly pointed out, should be grateful for the opportunity, especially if they do not contribute help and knowledge - thankfully many well regarded professionals do on this forum.
I think observations are fair so long as they are being factual, as was my note of the word “mint”, which is one of many promotional terms being often abused, those are IMO always worth keeping track of.
Not to make it personal but just factual.
All best,
S
Edited:
- Posts
- 531
- Likes
- 3,220
Joe_A
·One of the 'services' I appreciate which comes as a consequence of passionate collectors tracking watch sales of types and references over time, is that, watches that have been worked on or molested are identified for the rest of us.
I've seen it here and elsewhere where a watch turns up years after a change of ownership with a replacement dial or handset that may or may not be appropriate . . . and if it were not for the dedicated follower willing to share his or her expertise, the rest of us would remain in the dark.
I've seen it here and elsewhere where a watch turns up years after a change of ownership with a replacement dial or handset that may or may not be appropriate . . . and if it were not for the dedicated follower willing to share his or her expertise, the rest of us would remain in the dark.
- Posts
- 432
- Likes
- 741
- Posts
- 7,651
- Likes
- 21,952
Syrte
·
- Posts
- 3,119
- Likes
- 23,913
aap
·Glad you do. And I do feel a bit bad for this seller who’s got good taste, @kyle L ’s watch in my opinion was /Is a very nice honest watch with a charming dial, but describing it as « mint » is quite fanciful as @Tony C. pointed out with his usual eagle eye. The photo with the wood background is from @kyle L ’s listing on oF. The others are from the dealer listing, and I actually have to commend him for keeping the back indeed unpolished. I do have to wonder if the lugs are brushed the way they would have been leaving the factory.
I love Kyle's watch for sure. But that seller calling it "mint" is insulting.
- Posts
- 103
- Likes
- 96
rondeaux
·Love this discussion around the ethics of watch buying and selling. I think sharing information is always valuable and supports the mission of this community. I also think thoughtful criticism is important to that same end of informing collectors. And where harsher words are warranted for an unscrupulous seller, I support that too.
Not saying that’s totally the case here. I’ve seen this watch on IG a few times. Using a new word like “mint” almost always irks me because it toes the line between puffery and misstatement. It’s more so an opinion as to the condition than a phrase like “unpolished case” or “factory original dial,” which would be more likely to be taken as a statement of fact. All that said, I agree this watch should not be described as mint, but I don’t think it makes this seller a snake oil salesman.
Also, can anyone speak to the handset? Why are the hour and minute hands so clean compared to the seconds hand and the hour markers?
Not saying that’s totally the case here. I’ve seen this watch on IG a few times. Using a new word like “mint” almost always irks me because it toes the line between puffery and misstatement. It’s more so an opinion as to the condition than a phrase like “unpolished case” or “factory original dial,” which would be more likely to be taken as a statement of fact. All that said, I agree this watch should not be described as mint, but I don’t think it makes this seller a snake oil salesman.
Also, can anyone speak to the handset? Why are the hour and minute hands so clean compared to the seconds hand and the hour markers?
- Posts
- 4,451
- Likes
- 11,350
kyle L
··GrasshopperI always prefer for my watches to go to other collectors, but unfortunately this was not the case. As discussed, it was in good condition considering age (almost 70-80 years old) but definitely not what I would describe as mint. As for the handsets and what I remember, they also had some discoloration, just not as much as the dial numerals.
- Posts
- 24,257
- Likes
- 54,012
Dan S
·To dissect where an original watch went to on a forum and what /she makes on it is imho less than professional.
I couldn't disagree more with this comment, and furthermore I think your implicit criticism of @Syrte is totally inappropriate. 36 posts in 6 years, and you suddenly emerge to attack her ... interesting.
Fortunately most of us are not "professional" watch sellers, so we are not bound by any insider code against criticizing a dealer for misrepresentation or price-gouging. You seem a bit defensive, and maybe that's a good thing ... remember that people are watching.
As for tracking sales, that's exactly what some of the best collectors do in their areas of specialization. In fact, I greatly respect members who track the sales of specific watches from hand to hand, through auctions, etc. It's an incredibly valuable service, and often uncovers that watches have been tampered with.
- Posts
- 7,651
- Likes
- 21,952
Syrte
·Thanks dear @Dan S for your kind intention, as far as I am concerned and for a little bit of context I should mention I have had the chance to meet with @Andy_timeman « in real life » on two occasions, both in a warm and friendly atmosphere, and while he and I have many disagreements, we have enjoyed sparring about them in private exchanges and I would like to think his critical comment was made in the same playful and amicable spirit.
In any event I am not taking it personally, even though I disagree with the substance - but that won’t be the first time, or the last time 😉
In any event I am not taking it personally, even though I disagree with the substance - but that won’t be the first time, or the last time 😉
Edited:
- Posts
- 7,651
- Likes
- 21,952
Syrte
·PS I’ve edited the title of the thread for people selling watch at a profit who felt the words «flippin’ Longines» was putting them on the spot.
- Posts
- 2,578
- Likes
- 7,125
sxl2004
·Everybody should be able to make a profit and good for you if you do.
For me the buck stops when honestly represented watches get grossly misrepresented as mint. That is just dishonest.
For me the buck stops when honestly represented watches get grossly misrepresented as mint. That is just dishonest.
- Posts
- 24,257
- Likes
- 54,012
Dan S
·Everybody should be able to make a profit and good for you if you do.
Within limits. If you're hunting and taking a risk when buying, then sure, you deserve to make a profit. But when someone buys a watch from a collector in the OF private sale section and then tries to resell it within a few months with a massive mark-up in the same OF private sale section, that's exploitative behavior IMO.
- Posts
- 18
- Likes
- 21
Fons
·Wow, Kyle sold it back in Apr 2022, without the bracelet, for $715.
Granted it's been serviced since, but the rest of the $1135 markup (in just 4 months) must surely be for that bracelet it's now on... 😗
I happened to be the owner of TTC. Sometimes is very easy to assume costs and supposed markups on a watch, @JohnLy explained the situation very clearly, but just for the sake of the argument and healthy of this forum I will break this down for you:
Watch cost: $715
Full Service: $150 (the balance wheel was broken)
New BOR Bracelet: $140
Shopify + Paypal: $130
Local Taxes: $185
DHL + Insurance Shipping: $95
This leaves a positive of $565 (when sold), and I'm not counting the professional photographer, ads, and time invested. Not everything that shines is gold and not everyone is trying to make a quick profit. A professionally run business has many costs behind it and I understand is easy to assume situations based on mere speculations.
I hope this helped clear the misinformation.
Best.
- Posts
- 2,842
- Likes
- 4,537
sheepdoll
·This week is my Aunt's 98 birthday. Years ago I inherited my late Uncle's Longines Grand Prix. This weekend we had a big birthday party for my Aunt. I have been wanting to down size some of my collection. The Longines never fit my collecting profile. My Uncle was a well respected San Francisco ObGyn.
My cousin's Son is now an RN following his grandparent's avocation. His wife is also a RN, as was my Aunt.
I decided to offer him his grandfather's watch. He was quite pleased to get it. I had cleaned an oiled it sometime in the 1990s. Did tell him that it was due for another service which could be a bit expensive.
I thought it might be nice to share a photo of the cousin wearing the watch, and his wife. (I asked them if it was OK to post this and they said it would.)
I was going to make a new thread for this, but it seems to be on topic here as it is one way to dispose of the Longines by gifting it to someone for whom it will have meaning.
-j
My cousin's Son is now an RN following his grandparent's avocation. His wife is also a RN, as was my Aunt.
I decided to offer him his grandfather's watch. He was quite pleased to get it. I had cleaned an oiled it sometime in the 1990s. Did tell him that it was due for another service which could be a bit expensive.
I thought it might be nice to share a photo of the cousin wearing the watch, and his wife. (I asked them if it was OK to post this and they said it would.)
I was going to make a new thread for this, but it seems to be on topic here as it is one way to dispose of the Longines by gifting it to someone for whom it will have meaning.
-j
