Dear forum members,
My father has an old Longines flagship with a 341 movement. However, the crystal is not in a good shape. I don't know if these crystals are still available or which one will fit.
In the case back there are the following numbers: 3108-2-562, it's a stainless steel case. How can I find the right crystal for this watch?
Many thanks
Arnout

 

You could start with someone like
https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/watch-glasses

It really depends what part of the world your in

 

thanks for your reply, I'm in The Netherlands, Cousins is fine. However using Cousins I need the case nummer, how can I derive this from the nummers on the case back?
Many thanks

 

Hm..3108 appears not a valid intry in the Cousins database, I tried L.3108, L.3.108 etc. I should give them a call or do I overlook something? By the way that's why I like Omega, very well structured parts management!

 

Thanks for the advice, this is going to take some time! May be I should write Longines, there are quite a few Flagships around.

 

Unless you’re one of those watch collectors who have spent decades tinkering with watches, just take it to a professional watchmaker and he should be able to replace it for about 25-30 euros. And don’t mess with it because unless you have experience you may just break something much more expensive and end up spending 5 times that to fix it.

 

In my experience Longines factory service is quite costly, and even as someone who has a Swatch group parts account, they really don't have parts to sell for anything even remotely vintage. Whenever I ask for prices on parts, they always tell me to send the watch in for service.

 

Just curious- is Omega different in that respect?

 

Yes, very. For example with Omega all the parts for the Cal. 550, 560, and 750 series movements are readily available, and as you go backwards from that parts start to become discontinued more and more. For Longines, anything made before Swatch took over is simply unavailable.

Just to give one example, last year I had a modern interpretation of the Weems watches in my shop. Although I can't say for sure exactly what year it came from, it had an ETA 2892 inside, and when I asked Swatch about case parts for it, I sent them all the reference numbers off the case. They replied asking me for photos, and when I sent those they told me there wasn't much available for this "ancient" model...

I ordered crystals for both sides, and one of them (can't recall if it was front or back) was the very last one Swatch group had in stock.

 

That’s interesting.
I seem to recall one reedition of the large Weems was from the early 80s, somehow 1984 sticks in my mind but I cannot find confirmation.

The Swatch group as everyone knows has positioned Longines as a brand of “elegance” and “tradition”, they don’t make their money churning out coaxial calibers and crashing their watches in James Bond movie car chases. What they do have a vintage workshop that’s 10 watchmakers strong, and that they need to keep in business as it’s closely tied to their brand as a company with a rich history.

So while keeping vintage parts in house would appear in line with the overall strategy, I wonder if they would do the same with some mass produced model of the same period.
If that Weems reedition was from the early 1980s the rationale for retaining truly “ancient”parts makes less sense... but if few examples were made of early reeditions, perhaps specific parts like crystals sized for that peculiar model or case specific parts would run out after 30 years?

If you still have the pictures and serial number it would be interesting to send an archive request to get the production year of the watch.

 

Well here it is pre-service...



And post service...



I'm not going to post the serial number - not my watch. But if you want I can PM it to you and you can find out the year if you want and post it here, just don't post the serial number. Just shoot me a PM if you want the information.

A workshop of 10 watchmakers is very small and I'm quite sure they would have no trouble keeping that size shop busy. I'll bet you with the number of watches I turn away I could come pretty close to keeping a shop that size busy. But I'm not sure how that is relevant to the discussion of whether or not they actually have parts.

Omega is able to sell vintage parts and keep their significantly larger workshops busy, so I don't really believe Lgongines are "holding back" parts - I don't think they have them to hold back. I posted about this in another thread, but I just finished servicing a vintage gold Longines with a 23Z inside - photo of the watch:



Here is the estimate the customer received when they sent it in:



Now looking at that estimate, two things stand out. The first is $1700 for servicing a simple manual wind movement...now I know this is an old movement and all, but really that is a pretty extraordinary price, considering Omega charges less for more complex vintage movements. What that tells me is that Longines is counting on having to do more work to the movement than just replacing parts would require. So in the case of the most common issues like worn pivots on wheels, they would have to repivot wheels, rather than just replace the whole wheel. To be clear the only movement part that actually needed replacing in this watch was the mainspring - everything else was in great shape, so this estimate was not based on actually disassembling the watch and inspecting the parts.

The second thing is the "specially made glass" for $208. As I explained in the other thread the crystal is a little different on these watches because it has a very wide base to it, and that base contacts the dial to secure the dial and movement in place in the front loading case so it won't flop around. This is an acrylic crystal that is readily available on the open market, made specifically for this model of watch by G-S, and I bought one for $20. They would not have to have it made if they had stock of these parts and were simply not selling them to people like me.

As the Swatch spare parts department head emailed me several years ago when I started asking for parts for these older watches:

"If it’s vintage and Longines, I most likely cannot get original parts for it."

Cheers, Al

 

Thanks that’s interesting. I wasn’t suggesting you post the serial number publicly... and am not seeking to investigate myself.
My point was just that if this was a limited run reedition from 30 years ago I would find it logical if the parts that pertain to those large size cases might be scarce or had run out.
As to the Longines vintage parts, I saw with my own eyes the storage rooms in Saint Imier— even though of course I did not see the contents of every drawer. Which is why I speculated they might have a policy to keep the vintage parts for in house jobs, but who am I to say?

 

Well, if they do in fact have vintage parts and are charging $1700 to service a simple manual wind movement, then the pricing is even more egregious than I would have imagined. Quite honestly given Longines place in the Swatch group below Omega, the policies and pricing don't make sense to me.

Unclear to me if Swatch group is making parts for vintage Longines movements in mass production, like they continue to do for vintage Omega movements. Omega parts come with a date code on them, so I can see that parts for movements are still being made - some examples below:



On the left is a sweep seconds pinion for a Cal. 560 series, made the 28th week of 2016. Next to it a mainspring for the 550 series, made the 7th week of 2016, and then a Cal. 268 mainspring made the 51st week of 2016. So if Longines are still making parts and are not selling them, that would be very odd. If they are relying on some old stock that they have no intention of replenishing, what does that do for the brand long term when you send a watch in a decade from now and they can't fix it? I guess I just don't understand the strategy if they are really trying to keep the vintage watches going as your posts have implied.

Since you seem to have connections there, can you ask them why parts for the vintage models are not made available to independent watchmakers with parts accounts, like Omega makes them available? If I want modern Longines parts, those are no problem so it's not that the are restricting the entire Longines brand or anything...

 

As you know, Longines is no longer a manufacture and if Longines parts are no longer made, the people who need to be questioned about the long term strategy certainly is not Longines but the Swatch group, which has made a clear decision to invest into Omega to turn it into a luxury house and distinguish it from other group brands.
It is no secret that vintage Longines enthusiasts are ambivalent about Swatch group’s long term strategic choices for Longines. I’ll be curious to find out though if I can.

As to their pricing, how can one derive general conclusions based on the single example of a watch which is an old, post 1970s limited re-edition that’s neither modern nor what people usually consider « vintage »?

 

Certainly let us know. By the way now that you have added more photos above I see they do have vintage parts. Looks like some are new and some look like used parts scavenged from old movements.

I think you are confused, and maybe missing my point a little too. The pricing I posted above is not the for the Weems re-edition, but for the vintage gold manual wind with a Cal. 23Z. You can see in the estimate that the caliber designation is clearly listed at the top of the page - that is not a 2892...

Yes, this specific watch is certainly just one example, but not the only one I am aware of. Here is the movement they wanted $1700 for servicing - a simple 17 jewel movement:



I'm usually the one telling people that a $150 service is not likely going to be a proper service, so trust me I understand that it takes time and skill to service any watch properly. I do this for a living after all...and yes I charged far more than $150 for the labour on this watch.

But please remember that in my initial posts above, my position was that this very high price estimate for servicing the simplest of movements must mean that they don't have parts, and are counting on doing complex repairs to individual parts, like repivoting wheels. That kind of work would justify a much higher price for servicing even a simple movement. But if they have parts available for this as you appear to be suggesting, the pricing here is pretty difficult to justify, knowing that brands that are positioned higher on the Swatch ladder charge less for servicing even more complex movements. That's why I'm saying it doesn't make sense if your assertion that they have parts is correct.

Cheers, Al

 

Very few watch companies made or currently make their own crystals.