Although I know nothing about Longines I feel the passion that some have on this board for the brand. Like a zombie hungers for brains, I feel pangs of ...something.. when some of you talk about your flagships and conquests, and I knew sooner or later I was going to give one a go. I want an hour vision, but cannot currently afford one, so when I found a longines with a similar dial I felt like the golden squirrel of fate was chucking acorns at me. After a few months of cutting my own nose off to spite my face, I finally bought this:



Ghastly photo, worse bracelet, no movement shot, no idea what movement it was, but it was a relatively low risk gamble thanks to the low price. I knew the crown was wrong, but knew very little else. Dennis narrowed the movement down to either a caliber 19A or a later version with a 34x inside. This didn't illuminate me a lot, but more on the movement in a bit.

I was delighted when this turned up:


Sharp, pretty scratch free and it ran as soon as I picked it up and set it. Rushed outside, took a quick photo and set it to an atomic clock - it promptly stopped, and nothing I could do would set it going again. I couldn't even shift the caseback. I sent it off to Christian (watchguy.co.uk).

He came back to me quickly with a picture of the movement (the next few are Christians shots):


Didn't look bad at all, a bit dirty and the amplitude on a timegrapher was not good at all.

After a clean, it looked a lot better, and so did the traces.


The case itself looked even better. It appears a crystal tension ring was missing which was contributing to a whole host of issues.



The only issues are those around parts - Christian was unable to get hold of a new mainspring and Al (Archer) has implied agreement on this; I'm also looking for a genuine crown but have no idea where to start, as the consensus amongst the watchmakers seems to be if you need vintage Longines parts 'Send it to Swatch for service'. Is there somewhere I'm missing for a crown? If not, does this not bother you guys from a collection point of view? Christian was fairly relaxed in his belief the current mainspring will outlast us all, but at least some of the other brands have a relatively healthy spares situation in comparison...
If I'm searching ebay for a crown, what would I look for? There doesn't appear to be a case ref, and it's not in an obvious longines family other than calibre - what should I search on to make sure it fits?

Really, I'm left feeling exhausted - this little watch is in better cosmetic and mechanical shape than I possibly could have expected from that first ebay photo (I also have a rank expanding bracelet if anyone wants one ) and it's a lovely little watch I want to wear with pride, but I'm left with a crown and mainspring that would kill me if it was on a watch where I knew replacement was possible... Do I just learn to live with the feeling and does it fade over time?
All feedback and advice greatly appreciated.

 

No nothing about these unfortunately, BUT I think it looks fantastic and it's gone to a well deserved home.
Enjoy

 

Hi Stu - as we have discussed, these movements use a sealed barrel - a concept that was quite popular with some brands at this time, but is ill conceived in my opinion. So instead of buying just a mainspring, and then opening the barrel, cleaning it, and replacing the spring (with fresh braking grease etc.), you have to buy the whole unit already prepared to just drop in the movement - called a barrel complete. Now some sealed barrels can be opened, but this particular one is quite difficult, and there is a high probability of damaging the barrel either getting it open or closing it again due to it's construction.

These barrels are discontinued and difficult to find...I have a Cal. 341 in the shop that has been here for some time while I try to find a new barrel complete for it...even though I can buy modern Longines parts from Swatch, whenever I ask about vintage movement parts, the answer is always "Send the watch in for service" so they may have these old parts, but they are not selling them.

Now if this was a Cal. 431, then a new barrel is not a problem - here is a new barrel I bought for one earlier this year:





I know Christian does not have a Swatch account, so if you give me the case number, I can check with Swatch to see if they can supply the correct crown - the answer may the "send it in" but I can at least ask...

Personally with the issues around parts for these, I would hesitate to buy one with a 340 or 341 inside.

Cheers, Al

 

Don't worry about the mainspring too much. I've even heard of watchmakers who can restore it's elasticity by re-tempering it in the oven although this is a weird caliber as far as parts go.

(EDIT: I see Al replied already)

The case is probably a 23xx series. I'll have to shoot you a picture of that style crown.

 

Well the issue is not actually getting a new spring as such - I can find an appropriate mainspring length and strength to match what's inside the barrel, so that's not really the problem. The problem is opening and closing the barrel - to replace it, you need to open the barrel and remove the spring - that is the real issue...

BTW this "re-tempering" you speak of is really not done on new alloy springs. This is more for old and set blued steel mainsprings...

Unless you can find a barrel complete (if you do find one let me know where!) then it's best to just leave the barrel as is, clean it externally, oil the arbor where it meets the barrel lid and drum, then of course oil the pivots, and use it again.

The only time when using it again can't be done is when the spring breaks - then you are SOL.

Cheers, Al

 

Very nice dial and case is in great shape...I wish you luck with the parts issues, hope you'll be wearing this soon!

 

First off I think the watch looks really nice, and co-incidentally I've just returned from collecting a Longines from Christian and leaving him another one (which needs a new crown).

But I'm slightly confused by Al's post as he says


"I have a Cal. 341 in the shop that has been here for some time while I try to find a new barrel complete"

but follows with

"Now if this was a Cal. 431, then a new barrel is not a problem - here is a new barrel I bought for one earlier this year"

and then shows a picture with a part labelled Cal 430 which is what your movement is marked ??? So maybe no problem?

BTW, here's a photo of mine just serviced (19AS 19J)

 

scotchwatch list Barrel Complete for both 340 and 341 - supposedly NOS.

 

The 340 series is completely different from the 430 series. A caliber 431 is the same as a 430, but with a date feature so the mainspring and many other parts are interchangeable. However, the 43x beats at 36,000 bph while the 34x beats at 19,800 bph. See here for more differences:

http://omegaforums.net/threads/longines-vintage-automatics.411/

 

Sorry - it's my dyslexia. I'm mixing my 341s and 431s. Ignore me.

Definitely a 340 Barrel Complete at scotchwatch though.

 

Well, at least 341 and 431 both add up to 8 so your math skills are fine.

 

You lot are brilliant... I will check the case ref when it arrives tomorrow, and check what my options are, but its not the end of the world if i stick with the crown i have. Dennis, ill pm you the case ref, a picture would be great. Patrick, brilliant find on the scotchwatch site, thank you - and your conquest is beautiful. I've asked for a quote - Al, do you want me to grab the 341 barrel if they have one and send it over?

 

Love it when shit like this comes together! A perfect example of why it's great to be a member of a forum like this.

Here's my caliber 19AS version in the center - a hidden crown example from 1958 inside a 14ct 2343 case.



Solo shot:

 

This forum blows me away time and time again...just when I think I've seen the most incredible thing something else comes along on an even more incredible level!

Damn Dennis that is quite the trio!

 

Thanks. The one on the left is a caliber 22AS and it would be equal to a mid 50's Genève automatic with a 47x or 49x - very nice and under appreciated except by the handful of those in the know. The 19AS is probably on par with a nice Seamaster caliber 503 - fairly common in general, but a less seen variation. The Conquest caliber 291 is the rival in every way of the high end Constellation 561 / 564 models.