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Longines 3582 'Majetek'

  1. DirtyDozen12

    DirtyDozen12 Nov 30, 2017

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    Much has been written about the so-called 'Majetek'. Apart from the history, it is well-known that three different calibers were used. It is also common knowledge that earlier examples, with the cal. 15.94, have enamel dials while later ones, with the cal. 15.68Z, are found with metal dials. Some may know that examples with the cal. 15.26 can be found with two very different enamel dials. However, the details surrounding dial variation and movement/dial pairings, are worth investigating further.

    Since dials must be mounted onto movements, we must first study the three calibers. Looking below, it becomes clear that the cal. 15.26 is an evolution of the cal. 15.94. The two movements share a number of traits including the quantity and location of the holes for dial feet (highlighted below). In contrast, the cal. 15.68Z is largely unrelated and has only two dial-foot holes, which do not overlap with the equivalent holes of the other two movements. This suggests that dials could theoretically be shared or swapped between first (cal. 15.94) and second series (cal. 15.26) watches but not between third (15.68Z) and second or third and first series watches.

    backs2.JPG fronts2.JPG

    Based on my research, the third series is the most straightforward. No dials are shared with the other two series and only one dial variant seems to exist (M1). The second series is less cut and dry. The earliest examples are found with one type of enamel dial (E1), while later examples have another (E5). The dial variant (E1) that is found in early second series watches is also found in first series pieces across a wide range of serial numbers. The first series is the most complex. In my estimation, there appear to be four correct dial variants, all of which are enamel (E1, E2, E3, and E4). As of yet, there is no clear order or connection between these four dial types and the serial numbers of first series watches.

    6 types.jpg

    Given the increasing value of the 3582, there is a strong temptation to replace a damaged dial with a better one. Immediately below is an enamel dial (E1), mounted on a first series movement. The dial feet are clearly visible (highlited below). Next is a metal dial (M1) that has been incorrectly mounted on a first series movement. As you can see, no dial feet are visible.

    correct.JPG wrong.JPG

    Not only are dials being swapped, they are being refinished and possibly faked. Below is a small selection of inauthentic dials for your perusal. I hope that this has been informative.

    3.JPG 1.JPG 6.JPG 9 stlye in time disclosed.JPG 8.JPG 10.JPG 2.JPG 11.JPG
     
    Edited Nov 17, 2018
  2. valjoux72

    valjoux72 Nov 30, 2017

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    Will read it tomorrow, but I already know that it will be a great start in the weekend. Great work, many thanks!!!
     
  3. bubba48

    bubba48 Nov 30, 2017

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    Really interesting. Thanks for sharing
     
    Syrte likes this.
  4. Tony C.

    Tony C. Ωf Jury member Nov 30, 2017

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    Excellent research!
     
    Syrte likes this.
  5. dodo44

    dodo44 Nov 30, 2017

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    Great work! I have seen enamel dial that are shinny black glassy throughout and other that are matte black over white. Any thoughts about those variations?
     
    JohnLy likes this.
  6. DirtyDozen12

    DirtyDozen12 Nov 30, 2017

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    I have observed similar variations in surface finish. I believe that this is an important detail and am presently looking into it.
     
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  7. DirtyDozen12

    DirtyDozen12 Dec 10, 2017

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    As a preliminary response to @dodo44's inquiry, I have seen images of each, enamel dial variant that suggest there is a white layer of enamel underneath a black layer. However, this does not mean that all of the "printing" on the dial is exposed, white enamel from the bottom layer. It is clear that some of the "printing" on certain dial variants is on top of the black layer.

    Regarding surface finishes, I am still studying.
     
  8. voiddancer

    voiddancer Nov 9, 2019

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    Hello Sir,

    I have a question for you, are you able to find sources for the crown of cal.15? I have just recently picked up my ref. 3582, in which, I find the crown for this piece is not original, thus I would like to know whether you have any sources for it?

    Thank you so much!

    Yours,
    Matt.
     
  9. watchyouwant

    watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant Nov 10, 2019

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    sorry, matt. no source here. kind regards. achim
     
  10. voiddancer

    voiddancer Nov 10, 2019

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    No worries Sir. Would you mind me tell the size of the crown for cal. 15 series? Thank you so much!
     
  11. mswilks

    mswilks Nov 25, 2019

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    Thanks much for posting this. Very helpful.
     
  12. fbf

    fbf Jan 3, 2020

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    finally got my hands on one of these.... just confirmed with Longines. It was delivered on 1946 to Prague. I guess that explains why there was no markings on the case back. It carries the later 15.68z with metal dial.
     
    Mark020 likes this.
  13. w154

    w154 May 12, 2020

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    jmazpiazu and JimJupiter like this.
  14. w154

    w154 May 12, 2020

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    I thought I knew this thread well and didn’t re-read, but I’ve just re-read it and seen all the discussion regarding black printing over a white enamel base. This would make absolute sense for my dial as you can see a white line around the perimeter.
     
    DirtyDozen12 likes this.
  15. DirtyDozen12

    DirtyDozen12 May 12, 2020

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    @w154 Dial looks good!
     
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  16. Foo2rama

    Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. May 12, 2020

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    So glad I finally sourced my gen 2!!!!
     
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  17. w154

    w154 May 12, 2020

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    It’s what you would call an E1 then. Did you even see an E1 from the back ? I’ve searched but can’t find any images of loose dials and Ian’s dials that he just posted over on OF are the metal variant.
     
  18. DirtyDozen12

    DirtyDozen12 May 12, 2020

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    Yes, it is an E1. I have seen them from the back and yours is the same.
     
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  19. w154

    w154 May 12, 2020

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    It was bought on eBay from a seller in Israel. I didn’t check until just now... simply thinking it was odd. But here’s an extract from the wiki page on Czech Republic–Israel relations.

    “Diplomatic relations between the countries were established on July 3, 1948, four months after the Communists seized power in Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia supported the newly created Israeli state for several months with military aircraft and weapons.”

    That’s a nice coincidence and the time frame is right.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic–Israel_relations
     
  20. watchyouwant

    watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant May 13, 2020

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    looks good to me. had a few of these over the last 30 years. correct for the 1. and partly 2. movement variant. kind regards. achim
     
    w154 likes this.