Hello all,
I have started to look into some more affordable alternatives to the highly unattainable (for me) Paul Newman Daytonas. I found that the dial maker, Singer, produced dials for other watch brands. There is one that came up on eBay, a lip chronograph.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Montre-Wat...763558?hash=item23b98b35a6:g:QV4AAOSwufRcomvFPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

The chrome case seems to be in good condition, and the 35mm size is perfect, with a Valjoux 7733.
I'm new into these watches with the dials, and would like to ask for opinions regarding the watch. I have asked the seller if I could see it in person before I put a bid. What would be a fair market price for this chronograph? It's very hard to find results on this specific watch, but hoping some of you more familiar with the market may know. I know it is undesirable for some collectors because of its chrome case.

A

 

Some notes taken from Hodinkee's article https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/lip-paul-newman-chronograph-investigation


On the left, the orange accent model. On the right, the all black/fake/put-together model.

The case on the eBay piece looks to have the bulky, angular look of the watch on top, which is supposedly the "all-black" model of the watch. The one on the left is a softer, thinner lug model that should be on the orange accented model.

The caseback of the watch on eBay also has no similarity to the casebacks presented in the Hodinkee article.

Is the watch possibly put together, with later pieces?

 

Well, LIP from my understanding ordered parts from other companies and put them together to hit a pricepoint. Case variation itself would not be an immediate flag.

2k for a plated watch is a bit steep imho..

 

Thanks for that info on the case. I was not aware. I saw an old FS post here as referenced by Hodinkee on the article and I believe the asking was $2,800 for a near perfect condition 2 years ago. I have not seen the watch in person (poor timing and the wonderful traffic between myself and the seller within LA) but it looks to be in excellent condition. The tinge of orange has slightly faded on the dial also.

 

I am not sure it is plated... It appears so but I cannot 100% tell from the pictures, since you said it was chromed I assumed you knew the answer. LIPs where not all chrome cased.

One thing I do not like about the Hodinkee article is that they clearly state that LIP would do almost anything to a price point, and agree multiple watches exist of both variants they are talking about. Why draw the assumption that one of them is put together while multiple watches of the put together watch exist.

There are alot of art deco exotic dials out there from other makers. UG, Benrus and the other "Poorman's" Heuers. Heck I've got a Speedmaster that to say it nicely was inspired by the Newman....

View attachment 260930

 

To my knowledge, the LIP chronographs are plated. The caseback also states it is a SS back - and as we know that means that it is usually chrome plated.

lip, Nivada, and Wakmann are the ones that I have found to have the “square” Art Deco designs on the subdials. The blue and orange colors are particularly appealing here as well. Nivada has a nice colorful one, too.

But I suppose you are right. $2k is relatively hefty for a plated watch. I was hoping to find some sold price points, but I’ve only found the one on OF thus far, which was at a higher $2.8k

 

I owned one of these watches, and they are indeed plated. Mine was in a bad state, but the guy who got it from me had the case replated

 

Do you mind sharing when and how much you sold it for?

 

In the 1960s and '70s all the "makers" were assemblers. Rolex, Heuer, Omega, Breitling, Lip, all of them. Those I have just listed used Singer for dials which means that Lip could have gone cheaper if they wanted. Valjoux 7733 movement was not the cheapest to use either. So this was not a "down to a price" watch. Having a chrome-plated case instead of stainless cut about 5% off the price (per Chronosport catalogues I have) but the rest of the watch was the same quality as the stainless sisters.



These are both Heuers, SS on the right, chrome-plated on the left. Apart from the case they are almost identical inside. Oh, and one is signed "Zodiac" -- that happened a lot too. They are the same in size, the apparent difference is camera position and the Nato strap under the Zodiac pushing it closer.

I do think the price is steep, but there is that "Newman" premium and some Hodinkee effect too. I think I'd pass on this one, but it may be many months before a SS version turns up, and it's going to cost double. (None in Chrono24 today)

 

@MRC yes but LIP was considerably down market back then.

 

The difficulty in my mind is that buying from the same suppliers as the big names means that you either charge much the same prices or go out of business. There is a bit of cost-cutting in not signing the crown or bridge here. We know that the early 1970s (which the Val 7733 dates it to) were a very bad period for Swiss, French etc makers, but there isn't that much margin to economise unless you mainly sell time-only watches and are prepared to make chronos a loss-leader. Then again it may have varied between markets, Lip would have had more of a name in France than the USA for example, so maybe pricing reflected that.

Hmmm, in the early 1970s they had more troubles than that... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIP_(company)

Whatever, today it is the attractiveness of the watch to the purchaser (I like it BTW) and the guess that the Newman Daytonas are going to drag anything in the same genre upmarket with them.

 

There's a gold plated Lip Paul newman on chronocentric. The seller is asking 1800 euros for it.

http://chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?page=1;md=read;id=102961

 

I was offered 2k€ By an English collector in Jan 2017 and I sold it
Not sure how much they trade at today, but there was a point in which they became really hot! Around summer 2018 I would say.
Some say that the black hands variants are WatchCo equivalents, aka assembled from existing spare parts, so the orange handed ones usually are more desireable

 

I caught that, however I am much more interested in the blue and orange dial variant.

That sounds about the same price-ish as what was sold here on OF. I am now wondering to what price this bidding will reach.

The Hodinkee article states that the back was assembled from existing spare parts. I am not sure about the case on this particular model on eBay, since it looks fairly recent compared to what Hodinkee claims is original. Maybe this one is also assembled, but with the correct dial and movement?

 

Quality is fairly relative depending on the buyer, but I owned one of these for ~2 weeks and was very underwhelmed in the metal. Felt light in hand and the chrome plated case isn't notable or exceptional. Even at 2K, there are a number of more interesting and better built watches (in my opinion).

 

That was what I was afraid of. I’m making a judgment based on the dial alone. With the listing already at $2K which is slightly below at market price from what I have learned in the thread, a fellow collector friend has already said that it is not worth it being a chrome plated watch, so I had hoped to see it for myself. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find a time to view the watch in person this weekend, and the listing ends tomorrow. I will have to pass for now. Thanks for all of your feedback.

 

I have a red lip and its an all ss case not chrome plated. I bought it solely for its resemblance to a certain speedmaster

 

It sold for $2,750. Right around the neighborhood of price comps within the thread.

 

Well, to each his own, I guess, but it seems like a lot to pay for a smallish, chrome-plated chronograph with a common utilitarian movement from a nothing-special brand. Some people are going crazy over a specific paint scheme, but the quality of the watch is quite low overall, including the quality of printing on the dial. When the bubble bursts, I would not want to be holding pieces like this.

 

Not a crazy price. I remember these going for a lot more a year or so ago. Shortly after the Hodinkee article came out they went into rocket mode