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Let's throw this to the wolves...105.003 Dial Identification

  1. EtherMan Apr 3, 2016

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    Exactly. You can't have significant degradation under the paint like that and somehow have a perfect dial. I don't see how this cannot be a refinished dial.
     
    al128 likes this.
  2. TomGW Apr 3, 2016

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    Totally agree, which was the point I made at the beginning.
     
  3. KRLYUZH Apr 3, 2016

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    Let me make a couple things clear here before my final exit from this thread.

    First and foremost, thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread with a discussion of actual topic. After hearing your thoughts, I will lean towards a refinished dial and I am ok with that. Its a good one, and I see many many many Omegas come through my desk and 99% of redials are simply bad. Sloppy text, sloppy relume, missing swiss made altogether, etc etc. This one has tritium, very well applied at that, the font is nice (but fatter than what we see elsewhere), but a few main "issues" were brought up with the deformations on hour totalizer and also the crooked hash by 20 on minute totalizer. Its just that most of the time, if someone is trying that hard to make it look genuine, they don't miss a huge point like putting a semi-gloss finish on it. I think the case is closed on that.

    Now to address some of the "off-topic" comments:

    "Let's throw this to the wolves" - the title was never intended to offend anyone, you choose to interpret it that way out of your own ignorance and apparent hatred towards me personally. Throwing it to the wolves is meant that some of the contributors would, should, and did dissect the evidence apart and pointed out small details as to why they thought it was what it is. Again, take it as you will, but that's my side of the story.

    It is true that I don't "contribute" with discussions much and this thread is partially the reason why. There is almost a gang-like mentality exercised on many forums and if one of the regulars has an opinion, others tend to follow, turning an actual discussion into personal bashing and pointless arguments. This is not directed towards anyone in particular, or this particular thread, or this particular forum. My point is that I try to stay neutral, observe, occasionally say something, if necessary. That being said, how I do contribute to Omega community is by offering all of you watches. I offer clear pictures, best to my knowledge descriptions, fair (in most cases) prices, and most of all a form of trust and recourse if something is not right. Many of members here and elsewhere, including some of the ones commenting in this thread have watches that you bought from me and otherwise might not have owned. Anything from standard 3570's to limited edition pieces, to top level vintage pieces or else. That's my way of contribution.

    The above paragraph brings me to another point. I am a full time dealer and sell several different brands with focus on retro/vintage Omegas and Rolex. I also deal in modern watches and many other brands. I have sold over 200 Omegas in 2015 to members here and other forums and via my website. I am not saying this to "impress" anyone. The reason why I say this is that if you jump up and down long enough, eventually you'll land on your foot wrong and twist your ankle. Its inevitable, if you are human and I am a human. Mistakes will be made. If you are perfect at your job or business, other people, including me, have a lot to learn from you. So, the fact that a deal is brought up from over a year ago and still lingers here is not only unnecessary, but arrogant in its own way. The situation was handled with multiple solutions offered. Get over it. It happened, everyone got their opinion out at the time, blah blah blah. The point is, I stood behind what I sold and didn't leave anyone hanging. As a matter of fact, 6 months after that deal, the buyer came back to me wanting to buy a different watch I had for sale (this deal never happened as I respectfully declined the opportunity to deal with him again).

    Lots have been learned from that experience and others and all of this is always an ongoing learning process. It is partially the reason why I made this post ahead of making a sale ad. I had my doubts, I have discussed this dial with some of my colleagues (some of who sell on here as well) in the industry and got mixed reviews back. I know some of the guys on here practically dedicate their hobby with a strong focus in one particular field. So, I presented my evidence, gave MY reasons as to why I thought it COULD be some type of service dial and was asking if someone could provide me with a photo of another example or present their evidence of why its not original.

    At the end, I once again thank the meaningful replies to the topic and continued support from my clients and mods, many of whom I have become friends with over the years.

    - Kirill
     
    repoman, NT931, jens0125 and 16 others like this.
  4. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Apr 3, 2016

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    Nothing against you at all Kirill

    But when a dealer comes on and states he does not think it is a redial and asks us to prove it is with evidence is never going to end nice.

    As a dealer of Speedmasters this should be your bread and butter and to see now that you still justify your first post shows how much you do not know about speedmasters.
     
  5. dougiedude Carpe horologium! Apr 3, 2016

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    Let's hope he gets this one right the first time with his description when he lists it on eBay.

    After all, he did say we all can learn from our past experiences... let's add our current experiences, too.
     
    MikiJ likes this.
  6. Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 3, 2016

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    Hi Krlyuzh

    I am still reading this thread, but people asking for opinions on a watch , dial etc... opens for others opinions.

    Sometimes the people that post do not not have supporting documentation on hand or have the time to gather it. So you need to see who the author of the reply is and weight it accordingly.

    That being said, the best way I would answer the question is I would not buy it myself as I think something is off on the dial. In my opinion the printing is a little off. The weight of the type is slight off... not even looking at the turning of the sub dials.... I would pass on the watch personally .

    Good Hunting

    Bill Sohne


    That is g
     
  7. Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 3, 2016

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    Hi Standy

    First off I DONT know Kirill and to the best of my knowledge never bought from him,

    Maybe Kirill was in poor form in some of the wording of his post. That happens , from what I have seen of this Omega forum most are forgiving about that and focus on topic.

    I think you comment "As a dealer of Speedmasters this should be your bread and butter and to see now that you still justify your first post shows how much you do not know about speedmasters" him being a dealer has nothing to do with the topic. Is the watch or dial original etc...
    Just because he is a dealer he has to have expert knowledge of Speedmasters or whatever he sells.. That is never the case. I have not met anyone who knows everything about they sell.. I never claimed to know everything either. But the way people learn is by sharing info in forums like this one.

    I think its a redial , but my supporting documentation ? I have been collecting for 25 plus years and I have not come across one like that. But that is my opinion and I would simply say I would not buy that example.

    The one thing that does matter as a DEALER he / she stands behind what they sell ... does Kirill do that? he says he does and that is what a dealer should do. If he does not stand behind it that is another story.


    Good Hunting

    Bill Sohne






     
  8. watchknut New watch + Instagram + wife = dumbass Apr 3, 2016

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    Dealer or not, worded perfectly or not, I do respect the OP for coming on here, knowing well and good there was a chance that the dial in question could be a redial.

    The fact that he came on here before posting it for sale shows that he is an honest dealer and wants to serve the collector community well.

    Had he merely chalked it up as a "unique factory replacement dial" and sold it as such, then there would be cause for concern. He did not, as he knew a watch like this would attract many on this forum, and a inaccurate representation could hurt his reputation.

    Dials are like a puzzle, and his knowledge allowed him to complete only part of the puzzle, and that is the reason he came on here to gain the other pieces.

    How many other dealers come on here and ask an honest question about their watches?

    We all talk about other forums and how many asshats populate them...this thread shows that people living in glass houses should not cast stones.
     
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  9. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Apr 3, 2016

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    This whole thread has proved to be rather a disappointment for me .
    Just as I was starting to think I knew who the really good guys here were, I have to have a rethink.
    Maybe WUS aint so bad after all.
     
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  10. Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 3, 2016

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    HI Dennis

    You know what they say .... " One F**K up , wipes out a entire year of atta boys, great work ! "

    it is sad.

    Good Hunting

    Bill Sohne
     
    OMGRLX, MikiJ and watchknut like this.
  11. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Apr 3, 2016

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    There is some good info in this thread.

    The pock marking on the subdials under the paint, the misaligned T SM T, the white tritium perfectly applied and all the other observations about the dial.

    It's possible some are holding back so the redialers don't gain Intel. It's not too late to turn this around..
     
    JimInOz, KRLYUZH and gemini4 like this.
  12. Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 3, 2016

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    Hi Oddboy

    I dont think the info posted is in question. Just the way some members acted out and posted. The bell cant be unrung but apologizes would go a long way with some ( this is just educated guess on my part , but that is what I would do ).

    This is a community and I have not seen this type of posting here reminds me of a another forum which I will not name as it would be in bad forum. ( I already typed it and then deleted it before posting it here ).

    Good Hunting

    bill Sohne


     
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  13. Egatdagi Apr 3, 2016

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    Yeah! 'cause nobody with less than 1000 posts on this forum could ever know ANYTHING about watches.
     
    froezenite likes this.
  14. DLT222 Double D @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 3, 2016

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    You see we can all play nice after all!
     
  15. gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed et alia Apr 3, 2016

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    My point was that members with less than 1000 posts would not know the back stories that were driving the drama of this thread. There are some brand new members who know more about certain Omegas than I do.
     
  16. al128 unsolicited co-moderation giverer Apr 3, 2016

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    thought the same thing ... reminds me of a repainted car when they paint over decals, imperfections etc...

    disclaimer: I am no specialist just a regular guy ;)
     
  17. Egatdagi Apr 3, 2016

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    Point taken. I realize that the humour intended in my post isn't as obvious to others as it was to me when I posted.
     
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  18. 250scr Apr 3, 2016

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    I thought it was funny
     
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  19. Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 3, 2016

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    Hi Gemini4

    Back stories that were driving the drama ? really this is a forum not a soap opera. If there was a back story that involved the OP or a someone who replied out of forum , then the poster in question should not have posted or should have been pulled. Having a forum based on "back stories " and " history " makes for a closed forum to a few .... that type of forum I would not want to be a part of.

    Good Hunting

    Bill Sohne
     
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  20. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Apr 3, 2016

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    I'm sure there are members that have been here long enough to know what's going on but have a low post count.
    Not everyone feels the need to reply to every other post.
    I totally agree with you about new members, some may have just bought their first decent watch, others have been collecting for years.
     
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