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Let's throw this to the wolves...105.003 Dial Identification

  1. KRLYUZH

    KRLYUZH Apr 2, 2016

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    I don't post much or participate in many discussion on this (or other) forum, but I do believe most of you will recognize me from marketplace.

    I acquired a 105.003 recently and the dial kinda has me and another dealer/member on here (i'll let him comment if he chooses) kinda stumped.

    Here is what we are looking at here:

    Applied logo
    T SWISS MADE T text
    Geiger counter showing about 0.20 Sv/h, so the dial contains tritium material and not luminova
    Flat dial, no step all
    Almost a glossy like finish throughout and jet black color

    Now, we can quickly come to conclusion that this is not a typical original Ed White dial. No step is the biggest giveaway, its not obviously matte finished, the layout of font is different.

    Next guess was that its a service dial. Ok, possible, but there are two "known" service dial types. The tritium with PAINTED logo, flat dial, and no professional script and then there is the luminova replacement with applied logo and no step.

    The tritium painted dial is dismissed immediately for obvious reasons.

    Next up was the luminova dial applied logo dial comparison. Close, but the "d" in Speedmaster doesn't line up below the E in Omega the same, the E in Omega is not wide enough, obviously the T's are there next to swiss made, the numbers are different in font type.

    It does share some layout characteristics with later tall markers 2998 dial. The upper stroke of "d" is in middle bottom of E in Omega and E in Omega is wide. The 31 minute marker "splits" the W in SWISS MADE in similar manner as this dial, but again, other characteristics don't match up. Step and T's for starters.

    It is my belief that the dial is a very early "pre-painted logo" service dial. It still glows in dark, but not very bright and not for long. The hands are also service replacement, so one and two go hand in hand and it would "make sense".

    I do not believe the dial is refinished or counterfeit. There are too many details that would be missed in an aftermarket dial and too many similarities in font and layout.

    So, what I'm looking for here is the general opinion and more importantly another example like it.

    IMG_7956.jpg IMG_7958.jpg IMG_7959.jpg IMG_7960.jpg IMG_7964.jpg IMG_7967.jpg image.jpg IMG_1572.jpg IMG_1573.jpg
     
  2. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Apr 2, 2016

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    What size are the feet? 321 or 861?
     
  3. TomGW

    TomGW Apr 2, 2016

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    Is it possible that it's been refinished? At the very least, it seems that there are marks under the varnish and the concentric circles, on the sub-dials, are almost obliterated.
     
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  4. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Apr 2, 2016

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    FWIW, here is a, presumed , professional flat TT service dial with short 861 feet. Probably from the early 70's. A few of these have been seen. It doesn't appear to meaningfully match yours however. Good luck.

    image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
    Edited Apr 2, 2016
    SpikiSpikester likes this.
  5. STANDY

    STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Apr 2, 2016

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    Sounds more like a glossy add to justify its inconsistent issues. .

    Show me three more before you can call it 100% original.!!
     
  6. oddboy

    oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Apr 2, 2016

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    Wouldn't it be closer to the A7 dial, the first with T's? If it was from the same era and maker, wouldn't they use the same die?

    Given the alignment of the 31 minute marker, I'd suggest maybe redone. The glossy factor adds to that imho... but, I'm no expert.

    A7 dial
    IMG_20160402_204924.png

    OP dial

    IMG_20160402_205131_edit.png
     
  7. STANDY

    STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Apr 2, 2016

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    He knows its redone just a post to get some speculation to justify him trying to pass it off as it could be real
     
    Edited Apr 2, 2016
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  8. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Apr 2, 2016

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    On OF, what you fear is what you hear.
     
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  9. lwong

    lwong Apr 2, 2016

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    Am a bit confused, there's 2 different sets of speedy pics in the original post aren't there.. one with painted logo and one with applied?
     
  10. dougiedude

    dougiedude Carpe horologium! Apr 2, 2016

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    I know you are specifically asking about the dial, but how about the movement? Is it even correct, with ALL correct parts? Nothing looking like a paper clip :eek:?

    After all, we are talking about a timekeeping piece here.
     
    Edited Apr 2, 2016
  11. KRLYUZH

    KRLYUZH Apr 2, 2016

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    Yes, that picture is to show an example of painted logo service dial.
     
  12. KRLYUZH

    KRLYUZH Apr 2, 2016

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    Yawn.
     
  13. oddboy

    oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Apr 2, 2016

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    Is there any more to the story? Where did it come from? Any known history?
     
  14. KRLYUZH

    KRLYUZH Apr 2, 2016

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    Yes, they are issues. That's the point of the post, to find another example, if such exists, or prove that it's wrong with supporting evidence.

    I gave my reasons as to why I think it's not refinished. The font is not sloppy and consistent with other dials. The tritium is present and has a very neat application. Not wavy, not sloppy, not green and it register with a Geiger counter.

    I made this post to get educated opinions, not to make smart ass comments towards me personally.

    Thank you, Gemini, for your input with examples.
     
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  15. KRLYUZH

    KRLYUZH Apr 2, 2016

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    Not much of a story. It didn't come from an original owner or anything. It has an extract of archives from Omega with it, it has a modified 1171/1 bracelet with it. The 633 end-links were machined to 19mm. The previous owners also included a 7912 with it, but the end-links were lost, so he modified an 1171 to wear on bracelet.
     
  16. STANDY

    STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Apr 2, 2016

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    So you want us to prove your redial is not a redial with proof. Nothing to do with you but its a redial and i should not have to prove its not a redial.

    Its a pretty redial as you say but nothings going to change...
     
  17. dougiedude

    dougiedude Carpe horologium! Apr 2, 2016

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    Why don't you just call it a 2998 and be done with it?
     
  18. rbob99

    rbob99 Apr 2, 2016

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    I would not make that assumption myself, based on my dealings with the OP. I have found him to be a stand up guy. Seems to me he's just asking for learned opinions.
     
  19. STANDY

    STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Apr 2, 2016

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    Its not a redial hes a nice guy ... Come on man we are talking about dials not bromance,s
    Its a redial and he knows it and doesnt want to take the hit for buying it .

    I would be interested to see what you have bought of him .......
    And i bet you wernt on the forum when he sold a speedmaster with a paperclip as a part.
     
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  20. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Apr 2, 2016

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    I think members with less than 1000 posts should stay away from this thread.
     
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