Ok, we all know that a good watch service uses different types of "oils" (using the term in the widest possible way, incl. the sticky grease that is being used in automatics to avoid overwinding).

What was the progress over - say the past 40-50 years on that ... was it similar to motor-oils (used in car engines) who have developed tremendously in this period ... or was there comparable little technological advancement?

I keep hearing that the oils in a watch "break down after 5 years" ... and I have heard this since the 1970ies ... so is it still true? is this folklore? do the still break down after 5 years? ... or is it now 6.8 or 7.8 years

Modern engine oils have brought the service interval of car engines from 2-3000km up to 10.000+km (full synth) ... and that in a scenario where a modern car engine is way higher strung than those old lazy 5 liter / 150hp engines ... yet at the same time STILL offer better engine protection. Let alone you have now specs that 50 years ago were unimaginable (e.g. 0w5 or 5w50 oils).

so ... given that - compared to car engines - mechanical watches have not shown any noticable progress over the past 40-50 years (conceptually) ... what are your thoughts?

 

My thoughts? There is no better way to start an argument amongst watchmakers than to ask them to tell you about what oils should be used. You will get 15 opinions from 10 watchmakers. There will be the guy who swears by his 50 year old bottle of generic "watch oil", the guy who insists that pallet fork pivots should be oiled, the guy who uses 10W50 and swears his watch has run for 15 years keeping chronometer time, and the guy who won't use anything Moebius because it's all a conspiracy by Swatch group.

Just letting you know what the can you are opening contains...



Oh, and braking grease in the barrel is not used "to avoid overwinding".

Cheers, Al

 

That's kind of like asking mechanics what brand of oil, parts or what ever is best. But here is a very basic guide. Although each manufacturer will have there own recommendation as to what oil should be used and where.

 

While I enjoy a good oil thread as much as the next guy (mine are typically motorcycle related) the question was have they improved not what particular brand do people prefer. I assume they have but also am curious about the general consensus......I guess the easiest way to ask is have any major manufacturers increased their recommended service intervals?

 

There are synthetic watch oils now, and I would imagine they are better than the oils 50 years ago. Does the OP really mean to suggest that there has been no improvement in the last 50 years. If nothing else when I open an old pocket watch I don't get that nasty whale oil smell.

 

I don't think it's really possible to have one discussion without the other. I'm not a tribologist by any means, but have read countless oil spec sheets in my days creating lubrication schedules for machine tools in my former life. Lacking any real technical information, industry standard test results, etc., we are left with the opinion of watchmakers really, which gets us back to discussions of brand (because that's all we have to distinguish one oil from another without the technical specs).

But to answer the question generally, yes oils have improved. What effect this has on service intervals is debatable, and service interval is only one very gross measure of improvement.

Do we have to have our watches serviced every year like they did when porpoise jaw bone oil or neatsfoot oil were common lubricants? No certainly not, but extending service intervals is only one reason to change a particular oil used in a watch. Others would include better performance as measured in less friction leading to better balance amplitudes, less friction and wear once the oil does break down (how the oil fails), not to mention less spreading of the oil. Watch oil, unlike motor oils and other lubricating oils, have to do their job but also stay in place and not spread - this is a critical characteristic of watch oils actually.

Modern synthetic oils do break down, but not in the same manner as natural oils do.

Cheers, Al

 

i was not suggesting a ything as i know next to nothing about watch oils... i was asking for people's input, esp. those in the know...i used engine oils as an analogy, as i do actually know quite a bit about those

 

This reminds me that my Breitling is about to have another birthday at the beginning of March. Time for a service!

 

The comparison of synthetic engine oil in automobile engines with the lubricants in watches is meaningless! If a watch had an oil sump and pressure lubrication, it may not require reconditioning and re-lubricating during the life of the watch! You don't try to run an engine until there is no oil left! This is the unfortunate lot of many a wrist watch, yet many of them run for decades with no oil! There is no reserve of lubricant in a watch in the form of a "sump"! The amount of lubricant used in an average watch could be held on the head of a straight pin. Yet, if a watch is properly cleaned, rinsed, dried, and lubricated with the right lubricants, the lubricants can last for about 5 years in a watch that is properly sealed.

 

Coincidentally another oil discussion going on with some watchmakers on another site, and one said this when the topic of shelf life for oils came up:

"Such complete codswallop! Oil (forget the snake oil additives, they are of little importance,) is at least FORTY MILLION YEARS OLD. It doesn't need a shelf life. Period."

Yep, additives are of little importance...right...hopefully no one here uses this guy for servicing!

Can of worms indeed...

 

I'm sure @Archer and other of his ilk know all about this, but here is an interesting article http://www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/BTI-The_Practical_Lubrication_of_Clocks_and_Watches.pdf also http://hiro.alliancehorlogere.com/e...view_of_Modern_Lubricants_Used_in_Watchmaking

And it just occurred to me - do any of these lubricants and oils fall under any international standards e.g. ISO or similar?

 

I heard that old lubricants were made of organic substances, such as beef foot oil (huile de pied de boeuf). Is that true ??
Do you know if these oils are still used ??
According to a friend, most of oils are now synthetic perfluorinated oils

 

I disagree with a number of things that are in that particular document, so it is not one I would recommend personally.

 

Generally not used by professionals, although there is surely someone somewhere who still swears by them...

Most modern watch oils are synthetic.

Cheers, Al

 

I am most happy to see this subject brought up. I AM ALL EARS ! also. worked with an OIL ENGINEER, but learned nothing about watch oil. just engine and compressor oil. the thing I do know is " too much is not good" later vinn

 

Great reference, written by professional horologists for professionals.

Never came across any ISO standards for watch oils, there are standards for a lot of other things in horology, but I have yet to see anything on oils other than the information in my horological library and put out by the BHI.

Rob

 

apparently you don't know about oil or jewels vinn

 

After my 60 years in the business, y'know, y' could just be right! In your previous post, you admitted you know nothing about watch oil! So who are you to judge?

 

well, I do use synthetic watch - and clock oil. because that's all that's available ( at least I did not find any other). as far as crank case oil, I worked for standard oil research when they were developing multi viscosity oils and trying to break the german pattend on STP. as far as watch jewels go, they are kind of an oil reservoir - I think. please excuse me for being so gruff. vinn