Forums Latest Members

Let's talk about this Zenith...

  1. haga888 May 21, 2015

    Posts
    443
    Likes
    1,599
    So I bought this A3736 from a "well-known" Italian dealer at the beginning of last year. It had incorrect subdial hands and main crown on it but other than that everything about it looked good. I've never seen one in this condition before and assumed it was probably put together from NOS parts that I know he has access to. Fast-forward to today and I had sold the watch to a local buyer to free up some cash for another project. The buyer noticed something that I had never noticed. The dial is missing the "Swiss T" at the bottom. When he mentioned it I went back to pictures and assumed it was probably a service inner bezel and was covering it. On closer inspection it does appear to be completely missing. He spoke with a few of his Zenith collector friends and their conclusion was that it was a fake dial made in Italy. Needless to say, I offered a full refund and took the watch back. I'd rather eat the watch than ruin my reputation for a few $k.

    I contacted the dealer I bought it from and (his English is broken but this is what I'm interpreting) he claims it is original Zenith parts. Possibly service parts but original Zenith nonetheless. He's offered a full refund in any event. I have doubts that this is a fake dial. Service possibly, but outright fake? It makes no sense. I've taken some macro shots (in poor lighting sorry). The fonts look correct to me. The subdials are pie-pan. The dial is painted in a sunburst pattern and is bright which I'd assume is not easy for an amateur to do. Applied markers and Zenith star all look correct. The minute and second hashes look good to me. The lume is all tritium and even. I've noticed the inner bezel looks different than others I've seen on the net. The hour markers on the bezel are lumed (looks like original lume) which I don't see on net pictures. Basically, if this is a fake dial, there are a lot of OEM's that should be hiring them to make all of their dials. Also, if someone has tooled something to make a dial this convincing for this relatively uncommon watch, I'd assume I'd see these dials all over the place. I've never seen one like it. Who would go through this trouble to make this dial and only put it on one watch to make a few hundred Euros? You still had to find a relatively uncommon watch with such a bad dial that you couldn't sell it as is to put it on. And I don't think I paid a king's ransom for it either (which is probably why he's more than willing to refund it).

    Anyways, I'm sending it off to Zenith today to authenticate it one way or the other. But there are experts on here that have way more knowledge than I do about these things so I thought I'd throw it up here to get some opinions. If it's a bad watch, I'll keep it. I still think it is gorgeous. Even if it's a good watch, I think I'm still keeping it after all this trouble. Let me know what you think. Thanks.


    DSC00050.JPG DSC00048.JPG DSC00047.JPG DSC00046.JPG DSC00045.JPG DSC00044.JPG DSC00042.JPG DSC00041.JPG DSC00038.JPG DSC00037.JPG DSC00036.JPG DSC00034.JPG DSC00030.JPG DSC00028.JPG DSC00027.JPG DSC00026.JPG DSC00025.JPG
     
    x3no likes this.
  2. Jamey S May 21, 2015

    Posts
    38
    Likes
    184
    You are not alone! An interesting topic to me as well as my orange example has no swiss made either. My dial not as pristine as yours but still in good shape. Came out of Italy as well. I have never questioned the authenticity of my watch for many of the reasons you mention. Am of course curious to hear what the big gun experts say. IMG_0602.jpg
     
    Edited May 21, 2015
    x3no likes this.
  3. Adri Wonders why he can't edit this message May 21, 2015

    Posts
    422
    Likes
    1,783
    Very interesting....

    What i have seen, your Dial is a little bigger than others....

    1.png

    2.png
     
  4. haga888 May 21, 2015

    Posts
    443
    Likes
    1,599
  5. haga888 May 21, 2015

    Posts
    443
    Likes
    1,599
    This dial and bezel appear to be the same size as all the other examples but is missing the Swiss T only. And it's a completely different colour scheme which again leads me to believe that these dials are at least Zenith made because who would make fake dials for obscure watches in different colours to earn a few hundred Euros?
     
  6. Adri Wonders why he can't edit this message May 21, 2015

    Posts
    422
    Likes
    1,783
    I really don't know it:(

    My impression is its not a fake....

    First the dial is really good and as you said for a few dollars so much work mmmhmmm i think no....
     
  7. dualdo May 21, 2015

    Posts
    45
    Likes
    45
    I compared your dial with my A3736. It shows absolutely the same printing.
    What's the difference? It seems that your bezel is a bit bigger - so there is no free space between bezel and outer second track. In this case it would not make sense to hold the "Swiss T" printing, because it would be covered. I guess it's just an other execution with a broader bezel and they kicked out the "Swiss T" because no one could read it then. Just my two Cents.
     
  8. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member May 22, 2015

    Posts
    6,713
    Likes
    18,259
    If that's a recently printed dial, then I'd like the maker's contact info. I'd like to place some orders for some of my more tired watches.

    Authentic service dial, in my opinion.

    Dial with 'Swiss Made T' for comparison:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. haga888 May 22, 2015

    Posts
    443
    Likes
    1,599
    If that's a "fake" dial, it was done by Zenith's own dial maker. That's a professional job. Who would fake something that good and then "forget" to put the Swiss Made T on it?

    Anyways, I'll know in 3-6 weeks. I sent it to the Mothership in Switzerland yesterday.
     
  10. Tony C. Ωf Jury member May 22, 2015

    Posts
    7,348
    Likes
    24,041
    A classic tempest in a Teapot.

    I do not consider myself to be a Zenith expert, but there's no chance of that dial being a fake. It's simply too finely executed.

    The SWISS, SWISS T, T SWISS T worries are rarely warranted, by which I mean that there were many permutations of such designations, even on the very same models. This was true throughout the industry.

    Bottom-line: Judge the quality of the dial and correctness of the fonts, etc., and if it passes those tests, don't worry about the SWISS MADE or T designations.
     
    MMMD, LarryG and Hijak like this.
  11. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member May 22, 2015

    Posts
    6,713
    Likes
    18,259
    Have you done that in the past? Do they have a clue?
     
  12. haga888 May 22, 2015

    Posts
    443
    Likes
    1,599
    Nope, never had a reason to. I'd assume someone there would have a clue. Plus I'd like to see if they have a correct crown and subdial hands anyways.
     
  13. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member May 22, 2015

    Posts
    6,713
    Likes
    18,259
    Well, UG recently certified those fake Space Compaxes as legit. Of course, UG does not have Zenith's continuity....
     
  14. haga888 May 22, 2015

    Posts
    443
    Likes
    1,599
    That's scary.
     
  15. Adri Wonders why he can't edit this message May 22, 2015

    Posts
    422
    Likes
    1,783
    I can answer your question with the crown

    I search also one with nato star for my A277

    I'm sorry but they haven't a correct crown....only a service crown with new logo.
    3.png
     
  16. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident May 22, 2015

    Posts
    3,070
    Likes
    3,510
    The earlier crowns (Z in a star) are quite easy to find. The Zenith Radio ones are simple to find. The current ones are fairly difficult to find because they are considered "sales" parts by Zenith. The 60s, "NATO Star" ones are genuinely scarce. If you see them - buy them.
     
    nicolas07 likes this.
  17. Adri Wonders why he can't edit this message May 22, 2015

    Posts
    422
    Likes
    1,783
    @Stewart H
    The 3736 should have two "NATO star" crowns or i'm wrong:confused:?
     
  18. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident May 22, 2015

    Posts
    3,070
    Likes
    3,510
    I really don't know. But, if that's the case, it makes it doubly hard to get it right. :(
     
  19. michaelmc May 22, 2015

    Posts
    380
    Likes
    286
    Regardless of the outcome, those are beautiful dials on those watches.
     
    nicolas07 likes this.
  20. nicolas07 May 22, 2015

    Posts
    197
    Likes
    238
    Hi guys,

    For my better understanding, could you clarify a bit different names of crowns?
    Correct me if I am wrong but this is what I understood:
    - Z in a star: ok, quite easy to imagine
    - Zenith Radio: don't see what it looks like...
    - Zenith Nato: the one Adri posted right?
    - Four pointed star: as on A386
    - Five pointed star: modern crown, currently on modern Zenith

    Is that correct?