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  1. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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    I saw this movement photo as part of a vintage Lemania 105 chronograph, on an Ebay listing (now ended). While I was considering it, the listing ended. No problem, but it did peak my interest. So, I went on a search. Found information on a Lemania caliber 2310, which, as I understand it, was the forerunner on Omega cal. 320. The pictured movement seems a bit different. As I am not a watchmaker and still learning much about vintage watches, I thought I'd turn to the forum, for your learned opinions and advice on identifying this movement. Thanks for taking the time to stop by and offering your expertise.

    As another thought, could this be a franken?

    [​IMG]

    Correction: I've since learned, the Lemania cal. 2310 was the forerunner of Omega's cal 321 (pre-moon and moonwatch speedmasters), not cal. 320, as stated above
     
  2. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jul 22, 2013

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    Looks legitimate to me. With the Kif shock protection, it would be a cal 1275. My 105 has the Incabloc which is a 1276.
     
  3. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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    Thanks Stewart H. Do you have a photo of your cal. 1276, you could share for comparison? Thanks.
     
  4. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jul 22, 2013

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    No, but give me 10 minutes.
     
  5. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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    No problem...
     
  6. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jul 22, 2013

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    OK, here we go. I bought it on Watch Super Sunday as a project watch. It was advertised as "not winding and not re-setting" The first part is true - you can wind it all day and there's no tension. I'll give you 10 to 1 it's just a broken mainspring (probably the original) The chronograph all works well and the teeth all mesh etc. so moving the chronograph runner manually and then "stopping" and pressing re-set returns the sweep hand to 24 - so, re-set works and I reckon that all it needs is a clean and a new mainspring.

    Once I have cleaned the case, I'll take a view on having it re-plated and use it as a frequent wearer - I actually love its honest patina. The case is average sized for a 60s chronograph at about 35mm excl crown so it sits nicely on the wrist in a vintage way. For the £176 I paid, plus less than £10 for a new mainspring (fingers crossed that is all, I think I've got myself a bargain.

    Lemania 105.jpg Lemania 1276.jpg
     
  7. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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    Thank you for taking the time and effort to enlighten me. Yours seems to be the exact movement as the one I posted. But, as you stated above, my picture is of cal. 1275 and yours is cal. 1276. Since I'm still fairly new at this, could you point out the differences in the two photos? I did not post photo of the dial, but they also look identical.
     
  8. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jul 22, 2013

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    The difference is in the shock protection for the balance wheel. In the one you posted, the shock spring is "clover leaf" shaped. I believe that is a peculiar design to the Kif company, Mine has the more "usual" waisted shaped spring that was the original Inca design that they patented as the Incabloc (well actually the whole assembly rather than just the spring). In fact the company is now called Incabloc and if you click on the "Products" tab on this web site:
    http://www.incabloc.ch/incabloc_en.html

    you will see a very good exploded view of how it works.

    Generally, the Kif springs are now similarly shaped to the Incabloc ones:

    http://www.kif-parechoc.ch/old/en/en_horlogerie.htm
     
  9. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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    Thank you, this really has been quite the learning experience.

    What is your opinion of the difference? What, if anything, does the difference in shock protection indicate, as to manufacturer and collectibility significance?

    I've sent a message to seller, my interest if buyer bails out. Seller was asking 350GBP. Your purchase from earlier this year seems more reasonable. Could the price inflated that much?
     
  10. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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  11. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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  12. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jul 22, 2013

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    To my mind, they are two VERY slightly different solutions to the same problem. As to the relative merits, you would have to ask a watchmaker, rather than an amateur. IMO, the movement is superior to that of a Landeron or a Venus but that is just my opinion and the price I paid reflects me gambling on my abilities to fix the watch as opposed to the seller knowing that it didn't work and other bidders knowing it would cost them to have it fixed. £350 is a good price for any 1960s chronograph (except , perhaps, something like an EB movement that is just cheap and nasty) but any chronograph will cost you a lot more to have serviced than a normal 3 hand watch, if you intend to wear it.

    If all goes well and nothing, other than the mainspring, needs replacing, a three hand auto with date (such as an Omega 56x) takes me about 3 1/3 to 4 hours to service properly. A manual chronograph, without date takes at least double that. Whilst I have set myself a limit of £1,000 and I don't touch it, there are pieces that have cost less that I won't touch i.e. the Tissot with the Lemania 15 TL (33.3) That is such a beautiful movement, it deserves to be done professionally.
     
  13. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jul 22, 2013

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    This one is definitely a 1275 with the Kif shock system - therefore I don't think it is a Franken.
     
  14. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jul 22, 2013

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  15. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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    Ok, just to clarify, the one you indicate is definitely a 1275 is my original movement photo or the current ebay listing for a 1275. I was inquiring whether my original photo might be franken. Sorry, if I confused the issue.
     
  16. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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    As to Farfo value...that would be a good thing for you. I do see the difference on the Ranfft site photo. Thanks.
     
  17. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jul 22, 2013

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    The original one looks kosher to me.
     
  18. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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    Cal 1275 it is then. Thanks again, for putting up with my remedial questions. I suppose it would be best if one were born into the watch industry, rather than trying to learn it later in life...but for me it's still interesting and fun.:D
     
  19. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jul 22, 2013

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    I didn't take a screwdriver to a watch until 12 months ago and now I am obsessed but hopefully still know my limitations and I'm now 51 years old. I wish I had done it much earlier and I trained as an building services engineer.
     
  20. MKelley Jul 22, 2013

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    I have a competent watch guy, with over 40 yrs of experience. I only began watch collecting about 10 yrs ago. Didn't begin to get serious while working as a pencil pushing government bureaucrat. This craziness began only as a fascination with the engineering that goes into building a watch. Started slow with some quartz movement Tags and have moved on to Omega. It can get expensive, so I've backed off a bit to little known, now defunct, US watch brands as Hyde Park, Hampden. The Swiss are still premier in my book. Lemania is my latest interest. I suppose due to its historical link to Omega.