So, I am a sucker for Lemania.
The 5100 is not their prettiest of their calibers, but must be one of their most versatile.

There are several versions based on the 5100 caliber. The base caliber and the "slow beat" 5012 is by far the most common.
Some time ago, reading up on the late chronograph guru Chuck Maddox writings, I became aware of the perhaps most complicated version, the 5190.
In short the 5190 is a 5100 that has swapped the day/date/24h function for a moonphase and tidal display.
Being a "man of the seas", even making my living indirectly from seafaring activities, I was charmed to say the least.
Now, finding one is not that easy. At least if you do not want a tired and over prized sample.

The 5190 was ONLY used by Eberhard in one single model, the Mareoscope. Eberhard was, at the time, under the same ownership as Nouvelle Lemania (and Breguet - more to follow on a write up in planning). And the production volumes must have been low.

After some bargaining with a very sympathetic Italian dealer, this one is booked for transport to good ol´Norway.
(Sellers pictures).
Box, papers and the original bracelet (in dire need of cleaning).


(Read below for more info).





The US patent is linked here: https://www.google.com/patents/US5327400

And for those not bothered by clicking the link for all the details:

"The present invention has for its object a watch movement more particularly a wrist watch, a chronograph watch or a pocket watch which comprises a time display formed by a dial and hands and which comprises a tide indicator constituted by a tides disk 16 which is to be seen through a window of the dial 5 and which makes one turn in twenty-four hours. This disk is driven in rotation through the hand display. A moon phases hand 15 is also driven by the hand display, at the speed of one turn in 29.5 days and cooperates simultaneously with the tides disk 16 and with the signs 20 to 23 representing the phases of the moon disposed on the dial 5 around the tides disk 16."



The aim of the present invention is to remedy to the drawbacks of the time pieces existing and which permits particularly for yachtmen and sailors to integrate in a wrist watch or in a pocket watch an indicator showing simultaneously the movement of the tides and the moon phases.

The display of the tide indicator is shown in detail at FIG. 2, it comprises a tide disk 16 which can be seen through a circular window provided in the dial 5. This tide disk 16 comprises different colored zones 17,18 indicating respectively the high and low tides. The portions of this disk 16 located between the zones 17,18 can have shades of colours. This display comprises further the moon phases hand 15 pivoted concentrically to the tide disk 16. This moon phases hand 15 comprises at its end a graduated sector 19, extending on about a quarter of a circle. This sector extends thus over an angular distance or arc of circle corresponding to a fourth of the tide disk 16, that is to say over a distance corresponding to six hours that is the time interval separating a low tide from a high tide. As said before, the tide disk 16 makes one revolution in twenty-four hours and turns in the direction of the watch hands whereas the moon phases hand 15 and its sector 19 representing half a tide cycle (6 h 12 min) will make in the same direction one revolution during a moon cycle, i.e. within 29.5 days. This moon cycle hand indicates the phase of the moon by cooperating with the signs 20,21,22,23 representing the moon phases which are applied to the dial 5 around the disk 15. Simultaneously, this hand 15 indicates the position of the tide in differential values of the position of the zones 17,18 of the tide disk 16 with respect to the arrow of the hand 15.

When the hand 15 is located at the center of the zone 17, the high tide is at its culminent point and it will enter in its decreasing phase. It expresses itself by two tides or periods within twenty-four hours and forty eight minutes and forty-eight seconds.

The sector 19 enables to represent graphically the approximate time of half a tides cycle or period. In using this sector, we can note that:

in three hours six minutes one will be in a neutral zone.

in six hours twelve minutes one will be at the culminent point of the low tide.

In looking at FIG. 2, we can see that:

the arrow of the hand 15 of the moon phases indicates that one is in a period of full moon since it is in front of the sign 20.

the arrow of the hand 15 of the moon phases which is superimposed to the center of the zone 17 indicates that one is at the culminent point of a high tide.

the sector 19, which is fast with the arrow of the hand of the moon phases 15, superimposed with the tide disk 16 enables to read approximately the time resting until the next low tide.

 

Congrats!

 

Cool, it even has double tachymetre and telemetre scales.

 

And no Dot over 90...

 

Killer complications!

Curious to know, given your devotion to the 5100, have you ever had problems with the 'plastic' parts? So often warned about them, but haven't heard many horror stories.

 

Wacky? I'd say just cool! Congrats, excited to see some wrist shots!

 

Not a particular 5100 fanatic as such, but the so called plastic parts are actually a very tough Delrin material.
According to several watchmakers they are very durable.
The proof I guess lies in the fact that the 5100 was selected as the preferred automatic chronograph by so many armed and special forces. The use of Delrin is said to make the 5100/5012 tougher than conventional designs.

 

Well, it is plastic. A thermoplastic called polyoxymethylene to be exact. Trade names include Delrin (by Dupont) and several others as it's made by other manufacturers as well. Delrin is a tough material in my experience, but like many thermoplastics it has strengths and weaknesses. Although "it is said" by someone (?) that it makes the 5100 "tougher" than conventional materials, that's not really saying anything concrete. What conventional materials? Brass? German silver? Steel? All of those are pretty tough materials, so I take such claims with a grain of salt clearly. If we had a 5100 made of all conventional materials and typical 5100 tested, and it was found to outperform the conventional materials, I would be more convinced.

Sometimes people do tend to make Delrin into some magical material that is super exclusive (both in the 5100 and for the brake in the regular 861 and 1861 Speedmaster movements), but it's widely used in other industries and really isn't anything particularly special. I used it for wear strips on conveyors for years, so bought tons of it by the sheet and also in preformed extruded wear stripping. I liked it because it didn't absorb oil from the honing machines that was carried out on the parts when they first dropped on the conveyors. The UHMW-PE wear strip would absorb the oils, swell, and cause the conveyors to jam up - not good when the production line was pumping out 20,000 bearings in an 8 hour shift, as down time was expensive!

Delrin and others are susceptible to cracking as they age, which is the real concern. Since Delrin is opaque due to the crystalline structure, I'm not quite sure that the calendar support is actually made from Delrin since it's clear, and that is the part that as a watchmaker I would have concerns about. It's not a cheap part to replace at nearly $350 (at least for an Omega version for a 1045), and it can't be repaired like a worn metal part can be.

I don't have anything against the 5100 personally - I've worked on them and they are fine movements. People just need to understand what they are potentially getting into when they buy one.

Cheers, Al

 

Perhaps we can soon 3D print them
Seeing they 3D print functional firearms, and complete Turbillion movements, shure holds some promise....

 

And the Lego I played with some 40+ years ago is now in full use with my kids.
No cracking.....

 

And you know that is Delrin, or whatever the same material is that the calendar support is made from on the 5100?

Not all plastics are the same...

Oh and the Meccano set I used as a kid has no cracking either, and I'll put money that the Lego cracks before the steel in my set does.

 

How about corrosion?
Good thing the 5190 has no day/date parts....

 

Okay you win - it's the best movement ever made, and has magical properties...

 

Not my point, but I will of course listen to the experts.
The initial discussion was related to a question whether the plastic/something parts was something to be afraid of.
And I tried in my best but limited English to say I did not really think so.

 

When it suits your arguments you certainly do.

Honestly, I can't be bothered anymore with this issue as it truly is frustrating.

In fact I will now be wearing a Delrin brake from a Speedmaster on a chain as a protective Talisman to ward of evil sprits, ghosts, and goblins. Please don't try to convince me with facts that this might be useless, since facts have no place in any discussion relating to this magical material apparently, and straw men arguments relating to childhood toys carry more weight than experiences from a watchmaker and engineer do.

 

Al. I do value your input. Perhaps I have not got your point yet. I may be slow, even if I am an engineer too.
I wrote this post since I found the tidal/moon phase complication of the 5190 interesting and worth sharing.

For one I am truly no 5100 fanboy! I like the layout, but would much rather keep other watches if I for some reason should need to sell all but one watch.

Thread derailing is fine. It is almost mandatory here at OF. But I will make it clear I was not in anyway intending to draw your knowledge in question.
I fully agree that Delrin or whatever is not magical. It's a plastic. Perhaps better than the ones used in some Chinese kids toys (I hope so) but still plastic.
I merely tried to point out that it is not as bad as some might try to argue in some other threads I have seen around.

And it was really at the end of the day not my focus when I started this thread anyway.

 

Nice pick-up. I really like this model - plastic bits notwithstanding - and came very close to pulling the trigger on this one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Found it advertised outside of the bay as well. Negotiated a reasonable price with the seller. So far so good.
Wrist shots when time permits.
Cheers!

 

Sorry to stir up the debate. I wasn't asking about whether derlin was good, but interested to hear if it has been a problem for anyone, especially anyone who has a few 5100s.

 

Debate is good.
I am sure others have much more experience with this as I only own 4-5 5100/5012 watches. I have never needed plastic parts replaced.
Not saying it will never happen though.

Things break.