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LEMANIA Chro27-C12 chronometer history help please…..

Bing813
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Lemania in gold at 31mm from LA area in California, United States. I have seen several posts over a fifteen year span without answers. I have an email out to Breguet history hoping for something since they purchased Lemania in the 1980’s. Hoping someone has further information on this gem because I’ve seen it 7 times now with different serial numbers and dial conditions so I surely was exported to the US.
 
05F7E2B5-C2D0-409C-94F7-D2E0AA73D42E.jpeg 9C6581A2-7331-4FFF-BBB8-2CC8E56E0E8A.png 7964FD5D-3EE8-44EF-85CC-655DEFB81975.png BC06DB41-C6EE-4930-A728-093FE52853D6.png
Bing813
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Well…….Breguet states they did not get the historical archives with the purchase of Lemania and returned my email with a link to a Swiss history society.

calling all historians for help please
 
Northernman
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Interesting watch!
I’ve also seen a couple of them earlier.

Here’s pictures of another one. Note the close movement serial number.
3E2B739B-84F1-45B3-8062-9079A315A9CB.jpeg 866A4B28-D7F6-4742-8ED5-3C68AB5AC394.jpeg


You may also note the three character US import code BOL. This indicates that the watch was intended for sale in the US.

I would estimate the year of production, based on the serial number, to be last half of the 1940s.

Swatch was never interested in drawing attention to the fact that today’s Breguet manufacture is built on Lemania.
If any records have been kept, they must be in some cellar or attic somewhere in Switzerland.
I’ve seen nothing so far to indicate there’s anything available to the public.
 
jsflog
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Hi @Bing813
Did you had a response from Breguet?
I am Lemania fan, particularly of this specific model.
I have one also, not in such great condition as yours, but also nice.
20220727_094328.jpg IMG_20220621_215514_resized_20220621_095647236.jpg 3.jpg


I am trying also to find another watches like these.

I also have found seven so far.

Hope we can share some thoughts on this.

Thanks
João
 
Bing813
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Thank you for contacting Montres Breguet SA.

You have submitted a Lemania watch for our review; however, although Montres Breguet offers the possibility of obtaining historical information for Breguet watches, we are not able to provide this service for your wristwatch.

Indeed, the Lemania-Lugrin companies became New-Lemania SA in 1981. These companies were independent until their integration into Montres Breguet SA in 2010. Unfortunately we did not inherit their archives. Montres Breguet has, over time, managed to preserve the richness of its heritage, but unfortunately this is not the case for all watch manufactures.

We invite you to contact the International Clock Museum ([email protected]) in La Chaux-de-Fonds - Switzerland. The Museum team will be able to support you in your efforts and, if necessary, direct you to the appropriate institutions.

Respecfully yours,


Seyena Ahonyo
Archiviste
[email protected]
Phone : +41 21 841 90 90
Internal : 419 090
Montres Breguet SA
Place de la Tour 23
CH-1344 L’Abbaye, Switzerland

www.breguet.com
 
eugeneandresson
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Another fellow Lemaniac here. I also attempted to get more information about my military Lemanias from Breguet, but also got a similar response. I once (in 2019, just before Covid) found myself having dinner sitting next to Petros (previous Head of Omega Heritage) - a lot (if not the majority - but don’t quote me please as that is called ‘hearsay’) of the Speedmasters made in the 50s/60s were made by Lemania, and so i thought perhaps they might have some inkling of a trail to Lemania Info as they do provide extracts on some (but not all) of these watches. His response was similar, and I think he mentioned that nobody really cared when Lemania got absorbed and that a lot of the paperwork is gone, but he suggested I contact him and bring my watches to the Omega Museum…i never got around to doing that unfortunately and I didn’t think he would have remembered his invitation in anycase. It would be fabulous if this info miraculously could reappear.
 
jsflog
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Hi @Vintage Lemania,
Yours is also very nice.
I have located on internet seven of this models, including yours.
I will keep searching for more, and try to date them, although that is not easy, because particularly on case serial numbers, it seems to me that Lemania did not use them sequentially.
Thanks
 
Northernman
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jsflog jsflog
Hi @Vintage Lemania,
Yours is also very nice.
I have located on internet seven of this models, including yours.
I will keep searching for more, and try to date them, although that is not easy, because particularly on case serial numbers, it seems to me that Lemania did not use them sequentially.
Thanks
Only movement serial numbers has (so far) made any sense to me when it comes to Lemania. Case serials seems to be (at best) some kind of running number for a specific case design.
 
Vintage Lemania
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I had wondered for a while if the gold hands on mine were replacements, but it seems they are original considering all the other examples I have seen so far have the same hand set.
 
jsflog
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Vintage Lemania Vintage Lemania
I had wondered for a while if the gold hands on mine were replacements, but it seems they are original considering all the other examples I have seen so far have the same hand set.
I presume they are original, also based on your assumption.
I have other Lemania (not chronometer), also small, and hands are exactly the same.
Unfortunately, someone painted the small hands, and I never found at a reasonable price ones in "gold" to replace.
20180627_101843.jpg
 
Vintage Lemania
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jsflog jsflog
I presume they are original, also based on your assumption.
I have other Lemania (not chronometer), also small, and hands are exactly the same.
Unfortunately, someone painted the small hands, and I never found at a reasonable price ones in "gold" to replace.
20180627_101843.jpg
The blue does make for a pretty contrast.
 
Northernman
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jsflog jsflog
I presume they are original, also based on your assumption.
I have other Lemania (not chronometer), also small, and hands are exactly the same.
Unfortunately, someone painted the small hands, and I never found at a reasonable price ones in "gold" to replace.
20180627_101843.jpg
They can be stripped and replated....
 
jsflog
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Hi,
Just found this on internet, sold in USA in 2014 in a auction.

Unfortunately no movement or caseback numbers, but the first with a black dial I have found.

Hands are incorrect, but I would be more than happy to have it as it is.

Enjoy

1.jpg 7.jpg
 
Northernman
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Came to notice the Swiss Poincoin mark on the cases. (The hammer head mark with a number in it.)
#140 B. & C. Dubois Le Locle 11.07.1934 09.12.1947

From what I can make out of it, the last date (Radiation) is the date the company went out of business.
This would again help determine a relatively precise year of manufacturing for the watch cases in question.

Source:
https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/swisspdm.php
Edited:
 
Vintage Lemania
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jsflog jsflog
Hi,
Just found this on internet, sold in USA in 2014 in a auction.

Unfortunately no movement or caseback numbers, but the first with a black dial I have found.

Hands are incorrect, but I would be more than happy to have it as it is.

Enjoy

1.jpg 7.jpg
I would bet that the dial was originally silver like the others and was at some point refinished in black. Hour and minute hands look to have been painted white as well.
 
jsflog
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Northernman Northernman
Came to notice the Swiss Poincoin mark on the cases. (The hammer head mark with a number in it.)
#140 B. & C. Dubois Le Locle 11.07.1934 09.12.1947

From what I can make out of it, the last date (Radiation) is the date the company went out of business.
This would again help determine a relatively precise year of manufacturing for the watch cases in question.

Source:
https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/swisspdm.php

Hi @Northernman

On these Lemania, and several others in gold from Lemania, the hammer head mark with a number in it, the number is 105.

So the casemaker was:

Les Fils de Jules Blum, from 11.07.1934 to 16.05.1974.

Based on that assumption, I presume it will not be so easy to date them.

For the chronometer model, seems to me, there was two types of case.

One with larger lugs, on case serial 20400 and 20433, and other case with thinner lugs on case numbers 20547, 20531, 20527 and 20552.

Even so I am finding extremely difficult to date them, as per my research.

Movement serial number 21176, has the case number 20547
Movement serial number 21233, has the case number 20531.

So I found no logic on sequential case numbers, has a lower serial number movement, has a higher sequential case number.

I will keep digging.

Thanks,

João
 
Vintage Lemania
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I have heard that there was a 30mm and 34mm version of these. I'm assuming the example with larger lugs is 34mm?
 
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