Both are acknowledged redials. The cases on both are either counterfeit or grossly re-manufactured. No movement pictures. Not original crowns, another lie. Stay very far away!
I think both are redials, and not very good ones... and they might be frankens too (eg. the 2849 is supposed to be a cal 503 with date, not a cal 501). But let's see what the experts say.
Believe me, I had no intention. I just didn't know well enough if they were fake or not so that they could be reported.