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  1. jakey555

    jakey555 Nov 22, 2014

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    AN EBAY WATCH PURCHASE CASE STUDY:

    Thanks in part to the excellent PR that the three big Japanese Ebay sellers (jmryshi, sabashioyakiz1, and kaberui) have received on this forum and others, I recently parted with £836 of my hard-earned on a Speedy reduced from the first of these three sellers.
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400797761558?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
    It was strong money for one of these watches, but all jmryshi's listings offer the peace of mind that they are all inspected and 'serviced if needed'.

    Now, the day I got it (yesterday) this watch stopped after eight hours following a big wind up. I then gave it a full wind (40 crown revolutions) and it lost 15 minutes in 6 hours overnight on the wrist and stopped shortly afterwards. I then gave it another full wind and it stopped after only one hour on the wrist.

    So there's issues with the watch and it's not as described (described as serviced and it clearly needs at least a service).

    This guy sells a LOT of watches though so the odd bad one must slip through. And the cosmetic condition is immaculate and as described. What matters now is how he responds to my refund request (which I believe is completely within my rights to ask for in this case)

    Confusing the issue though is the fact that in his descriptions he seems to try to steer buyers away from the very strong protection that ebay confers automatically. He talks about all refund requests will be rejected if not made in 3 days, all repair must be carried out in the US by his watchmaker, and no import duties will be refunded. Well, it's my understanding that regardless of what a seller may say in their description, Paypal will refund buyers up to 180 days, and that you cannot ask a buyer to send back an item to a different country from which it was despatched to them (It was sent to me from London).
    Anyway, I've copied below the details of my refund request.

    I propose to post in this forum how this guy deals with the issue for future reference of anybody else researching the seller prior to bidding, as I did. It's how a seller behaves when something goes wrong that really counts, and I'll make sure if it's a positive outcome that he gets positive publicity out of it.

    (As I write this it's just stopped again. Just over 2 hours this time)


    TEXT OF MY REFUND REQUEST:
    I gave this automatic watch a full backup wind on reciept, but it keeps stopping. It sometimes runs for 6 or 8 hours before stopping: This evening, fully wound it ran for only one hour and stopped dead. As well as stopping it also loses time drastically. The first time I tested it, it lost 15 minutes in only 8 hours, before stopping.
    This watch was described as "All of our watches has been tested (serviced if needed) and working properly and keeping time."
    It is not working properly and not keeping time; reserve running time for an automatic Omega watch with a full wind should be well over 24 hours.
    Furthermore, sporadic stopping of the movement is an indication that a watch requires, in the best case scenario a full service, which also indicates that your claim that all watches are 'serviced if needed' is a questionable claim which has led me to lose trust in you as a seller. For this watch, stopping only an hour after a full wind, there could also be a more serious fault than servicing related issues,
    The reason I bought this watch from you is that I saw on both the Omega and Watch-u-seek forums that you are a trusted seller. Because the Speedmaster Reduced is an expensive watch to repair and service, I paid top money for this, reassured that this one would not have any imminent issues as it had been fully checked over and seviced if necessary. An Omega service on this watch would cost me aproximately half its value, so whether it needs a service or not is a massively significant matter.
    Externally the watch is as described and will be returned in condition exactly as received.
    To reiterate, this is not user error, the watch is fully wound and has stopped in as little as one hour from winding.
    I am hoping for a speedy resolution to this problem, in which case I will ensure that readers of the two above mentioned watch forums will get to hear that you are an honest seller who will stand behind his items.
    I see in your item descriptions, however, that you offer a complicated form of warranty which involves UK buyers returning faulty items to a US based watchmaker, with postage, but not duty, to potentially be refunded in future.
    To be clear on this, I am not interested in this awkward process as, from buyers' point of view it is inferior to the buyer protection automatically offered to all buyers by paypal and ebay. I am therefore seeking, through the ebay money back guarantee process a full refund of auction price and postage due to this item being significantly not as described.
    On the subject of postage, item location was listed in London, UK, It was despatched to me from London, UK, I am a UK buyer, and I am happy to return the faulty watch to the London address. I do not wish to get involved with the additional expense and time delays of sending this watch to the USA, to have the same organization responsible for not servicing it properly (or at all) last time, have a poke around inside it and send it back, at my expense.
    Furthermore, I note that you also state in your listing: "To return the watch for refund, please contact us within 3 days from reception, or your request will be denied."
    It is my understanding that Ebay can allow up to 30 days and Paypal can allow up to 180 days for a refund and it is Ebay/ Paypal, not the seller, that arbitrates and decides on refunds. Three days is not always long enough to evaluate the running condition of a watch, although in this case it was long enough, due to the severity and obvious nature of the problems.
    I am aware that you sell a lot of watches every week and due to this volume, one like this with issues will occasionally slip through. I do hope though that we can reach a rapid and satisfactory solution to this problem.



    Watch this space!
     
  2. michael e

    michael e Nov 23, 2014

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    Have you given the seller a chance before having to do all this?
    It seems you have gone to the trouble to make this post which will surely be used as a tool to make the seller pull his socks up.

    I am sure as a seller of many watches he/she will have no problem with a genuine returns request.
    Cheers Mick
     
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  3. STANDY

    STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Nov 23, 2014

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    (((Furthermore, sporadic stopping of the movement is an indication that a watch requires, in the best case scenario a full service, which also indicates that your claim that all watches are 'serviced if needed' is a questionable claim which has led me to lose trust in you as a seller.)))


    You do realize that it could have been dropped by a postman or courier company in transit and was spot on when it left.
     
  4. NT931

    NT931 Nov 23, 2014

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    I agree. While I do understand jakey that you're frustrated, I do feel like Mick that you should go to the seller first with your concerns before posting the full text of your refund request here. Others have posted their proposed replies to sellers, but often it's in the "Am I being too harsh, should I tone it down?" spirit, or the "Did I miss something here guys, before I blast the seller?" spirit.

    I wish you all the best in your dealing with jmryshi.
     
  5. chickenman26

    chickenman26 Nov 23, 2014

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    Agree with the above. Way too wordy and accusative for a first contact. Besides, you still have today to ask for a refund by his 3 day period. So just do it, without all the verbiage. Save the stronger language and veiled threats for later, if the first attempt fails

    Stu
     
  6. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Nov 23, 2014

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    I think this was premature and sort of poor form to post about this before even asking about a return....
     
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  7. repoman

    repoman Nov 23, 2014

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    Give the guy (seller) a chance for cripes sakes.
     
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  8. SpikiSpikester

    SpikiSpikester @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 23, 2014

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    I couldn't make it to the end of that email & English is my first language. As the seller is not a native speaker I wouldn't count on him reading it properly, or at all.

    Keeping it short, simple and polite is usually the best way.
     
  9. mozambique

    mozambique Nov 23, 2014

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    Agree with general sentiments above. My wife teaches conflict resolution and your text as-is is somewhat accusatory, as frustrating as it must be for you. Dial it back and best of luck in your efforts. Please let us know how it goes.
     
  10. Taddyangle

    Taddyangle Convicted Invicta Wearer Nov 23, 2014

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    Why not send only first paragraph of what you wrote, as that explains issue. And also ask for full refund.

    No need for anything else at this stage.
     
  11. NT931

    NT931 Nov 24, 2014

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    One other option is to see if the seller will cover service costs. When I bought my Great White, it had a problem requiring servicing (costing USD170), which I communicated to the seller. They offered to credit me the cost of servicing as they had advertised it as 'fully serviced'.

    Once I agreed, they credited the $170 to me within 4 hours. Very decent of them! Perhaps that's an option, Jakey ?
     
  12. Dogmann

    Dogmann Nov 25, 2014

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    Hi jakey555,

    I do agree with what many here have already said in that probably you should of waited to see his response before posting here and could also of taken a slightly less aggressive approach in your message to him and waited to see what he suggested before going in all guns blazing. It seems you are fully aware of the protection you have both via E-Bay and PayPal so really there is no need to panic at this early stage of trying to resolve your issues and I do understand why you are upset. As others have also mentioned things some times happen in transit that are beyond the sellers control and can adversely effect a watch so it may indeed of left him in perfect working order. Also you are saying it's going to cost nearly half your cost for service I do understand some of these have what some consider a difficult movement to work on but find a cost of over £400 a little hard to believe even if being sent directly to Omega. It would also be nice if you could let us all know just how this is progressing if it is at all.

    Marc
     
  13. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 25, 2014

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    Agree with the posts above, it really should be worked out first before coming to this sort of public shaming.

    Slightly different topic but while the Japanese sellers have had a lot of good PR here along with a lot of past sales (I can think of nearly a dozen people that have bought from them just off hand) the reduced version of the Speedmaster whenever its brought up on this forum results in a strong caution over its servicing costs.

    Those costs, or more accurately the ratio of service cost to total watch value is very high which is why more often than not people are steered away from them towards the Pro or 7750 derived models. People often also say when buying a second hand watch assume it hasn't been serviced and factor that in, just paying more for it is not a safe alternative to that.

    I know some people really do want the reduced but unless you absolutely have to have it because the Pro is too big and the Date models are not the style you like, the other Speedmasters are a better option (I know this is not helpful to be saying now after you've bought it but for the next guy that is looking at a reduced its a valid point) and though the Pro is more expensive in the short term it genuinely is better value in the long term.
     
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  14. sumerian

    sumerian Gold Constellation Magpie Nov 25, 2014

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    Wow that's a long email....keep it simple and short... I don't think you need to go this far in first message.
    Did he refuse to refund?
     
    Edited Nov 25, 2014
  15. Stu-Silver

    Stu-Silver Nov 25, 2014

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    I once awaited delivery of a very nice Seiko UFO which was being delivered to my work. I was actually out in the glass corridor of my office overlooking the car park and saw the postman with his mail approach the building. As he neared the door, I saw him drop the small cardboard box he was balancing on an armful of letters on to the floor and was horrified. It was my watch and I explained to him what was inside. I checked it over before signing for it and all appeared fine, being an auto it was running and hands changed etc. however, to my dismay, a few days later I realised the setting function for the date did not work and was likely a result of the drop. Still like it to this day and frustrates the hell out of me. God only knows what treatment my package received during its journey, I saw the last 20 seconds of its care only an saw it bounce across the car park. I didn't contact the seller as it wasn't his fault and perhaps should have noted on the signature card it had been dropped. A costly mistake from me and one to learn from in future.
     
  16. Stu-Silver

    Stu-Silver Nov 25, 2014

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    I would also like to say to Jakey that I would still be more than interested to hear how he get on with his enquiry. As a fellow newish member, he will no doubt feel a little embarrassed about the comments and likely wishes he had never posted. However, we all make mistakes and I would encourage him to get back on here and let us know the outcome. It's hard not to get emotional when things don't work out and you think you may have lost out, especially when the transaction is with the other side of the world. I can see why he reacted the way he did and respect his attempts to share it with the forum and whilst I agree it was a little hasty and aggressive in approach, would like to see how it progresses.
     
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  17. mozambique

    mozambique Nov 25, 2014

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    ditto that
     
  18. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Nov 26, 2014

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    I guess Jakey is not responding since we generally didn't agree with his approach. However on WUS where he posted the same thing, and received more favourable responses, he has stated the outcome:

    http://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/ebay-speedmaster-reduced-case-study-1257298.html

    Short version - he was offered both service to repair and refund, and he took refund. All of the long winded stuff was really not necessary it seems, and the seller responded as he should have.

    Cheers, Al
     
  19. Kringkily

    Kringkily Omega Collector Nov 26, 2014

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    I have known of that seller for quite some time and there are a few other dealers that we all compete for inventory lots. All of them are good guys and by no means out there to stick a person for a little extra profit. I check all my watches but sometimes shipping can be rough and a few hard throws can jiggle something loose. It is about how they handle the post purchase process. I can't say I am 100% perfect (although I wish) and things happen but as long as they are taken care of there is no need to jump the gun and throw around posts before pursuing the proper channels.
     
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  20. sumerian

    sumerian Gold Constellation Magpie Nov 26, 2014

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    I think OP was little over dramatic.
    He didn't give give seller chance to correct.
    May be this is his first purchase or first over seas purchase either ways it would have been resolved easily and quickly, if he had approached the seller first.