IWC 666 Ingenieur anyone ?

Tony C.

I'd need to see more photos of 1jansen's watch and a date of production to form a strong opinion.

I see nothing wrong with the signatures, but it looks too clean to be original. More likely a service replacement, and certainly so if it's an early production watch.

1jansen

Thank you for your comments.
Sorry, I can't post more pictures cuz the watch is kept at he bank safe. Have to take it out sometime later.

I have another Ingenieur date version, which is certainly with an original dial.
Cheers,

ryanbk

And let's keep this thread alive... Knowing how people here love photos here's one of my blue dialed second generation Ingenieur ref 866

Tony C.

I believe that the 866 indexes were gold on those without the sigma dials as well.

1jansen

Thank you for your comments.
Sorry, I can't post more pictures cuz the watch is kept at he bank safe. Have to take it out sometime later.

I have another Ingenieur date version, which is certainly with an original dial.
Cheers,

ClarendonVintage

Later hands?

Tony C.

I do not know the answer to that question. This issue has been debated on the IWC forum previously, and I stand by my assertion that all 866 models had gold markers. This is how I have arrived at that conclusion:

General Problems

– Why would IWC have used gold markers on some ref. 866, and steel on others?

– What purpose could it have served when there were no "Deluxe" models?

– How could the two be priced the same?

– Why were there no such distinctions made in catalogues or other marketing material?

Specific Problems

– The markers found on 866 dials all resist corrosion in a manner more consistent with gold than steel.

– The Aprior/Sigma symbol was part of a failed initiative to standardize the marketing of Swiss made watches with gold dial furniture. The symbol was trademarked in 1971, four years after the introduction of the ref. 866 Ingenieur. I therefore find it almost impossible to believe that IWC would have decided to use gold indexes only after, or should I say because of the Aprior initiative.

– Even if such a change had been made several years after the introduction of the model, would it have made sense for IWC to only use only a new, tiny, and virtually unrecognizable (to customers) symbol to herald the change? Do you imagine that they would not have trumpeted the change in catalogues and other marketing material?

– There are plenty of examples of full Gold 866 that have no Aprior mark. Had there been a taut connection, surely manufacturers would not have used the symbol only in connection to white gold.

– There is no such symbol on this internal dial reference (linked below). Note that the reference was for models 1808 and 1908, which were the replacement references for 866, and which began in 1971. So if gold indexes had been new to the model, and were invariably denoted by the Aprior symbol, why would the symbols not have appeared in the internal reference material?

http://www.frizzellweb.com/larry/inge/1808-1908.jpg

– In the excellent and well-known "Dial Variations" Ingenieur reference authored by Larry Seiden, Marco Schönenberger and David Ter Molen, it is stated: "Notably, a dial lacing [sic] the APRIOR-mark does not mean the markers are not gold."