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Isolation Challenge - Buy a watch for £50 Max

  1. ZIELSZIEK

    ZIELSZIEK Apr 26, 2020

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    They are fakes, just like almost everything on Wish, sadly. There has been an ongoing discussion on my local watch forum about them since somebody decided to flood our local market with these...The NH36 marked dial gives it away instantly. Pic from my local forum. bhclply.jpg
     
  2. larryganz

    larryganz The cable guy Apr 26, 2020

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    We thought about it, and since they're using pictures of the real watch in the sale, and we saved the webpage and screenshots just in case, then we can report the charge as fraud/fake and get refunded. We used ApplePay so that they can't take a credit card number and use it anywhere else.

    If it's real or fake, it was just going to be a gift someday, as I already own the genuine PADI turtle, PADI Solar save the seas, and the Blue Lagoon LE Turtle. But, typically for $50 you can get a fake Rolex, so we thought that maybe the price was high enough to be the real deal for a B-stock or cosmetically flawed Seiko (maybe even used).
     
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  3. ZIELSZIEK

    ZIELSZIEK Apr 26, 2020

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    I'm glad things are different where you live. In my country, in order to prove that a watch is fake, one needs to send the product to an authentication establishment run by the government in order to file a return based on an item being non-geniune with the whole procedure being a mess of paperwork. I guess paying by PayPal would be a different story, but I doubt Wish would accept that.
    I'm well aware of the fact that you're an experienced collector as I have seen your posts, I have only posted the pic in order to highlight the major discrepancies between the real and genuine turtle.
    The irony of it all is the fact that under the hood that turtle has a genuine NH36, some even have the rotor that says 4R36, so it's not 100% fake.
     
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  4. ZIELSZIEK

    ZIELSZIEK Apr 26, 2020

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    I didn't quite get that but the watch you posted looks good to me. I'm no expert but I saw you opened another thread and got helped by people who know these in and out, therefore I don't see how I could provide anything more.
     
  5. larryganz

    larryganz The cable guy Apr 26, 2020

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    Don't get me wrong, your post is certainly helpful, and I will post a picture of what I get (in about 10 days).

    Your photo definitely does not match the photo of the item for sale. In the US, if the item is presented as genuine and the pictures in the sale look genuine, and the product that arrives is not as presented (especially if it is a fake), then we can easily file a claim to get our money back.

    But, getting an assembled watch with genuine movement for that price might not be terrible, if the movement is good. Maybe a partially fake Seiko Turtle with genuine NH-36 movement would make a good donor watch for modding? For example, I have an SKX173 that I modded with a Yobokies bezel, chapter ring, dial, and hands to look similar to a Tudor Black Bay Red (with an oyster style bracelet from Strapcode).
     
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  6. TimeODanaos

    TimeODanaos May 2, 2020

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    After last week's - virtual - triumph (nice 60s Rodania for 27.50 + pp from UK), in my lockdown-addled imagination I'm pursuing this:
    Paul Garnier Annotation 2020-05-02 191628.jpg
    Currently 22.99 GBP, although unfortunately with 5 days to run, so I may need to concede on this one. Interested whether @JwRosenthal ever had one like it. Even if/when I (virtually) lose the 50 pounds challenge, I have however added to my education.
    Perhaps this is widely known, but I wasn't aware. The eponymous Jean-Paul Garnier was born in 1801 in France, where he made his career. It's too easy for some of us to become Anglo-centric (and sometimes Swiss-centric): I did not know that Garnier was in fact much more than a watchmaker, and was actually a highly regarded general technologist and engineer in 19th century France - perhaps none of this is news to Francophone OF members. He is popularly remembered for electric clock technology and for superintending the fit-out of the French railway system with station clocks. But the bit that most interested me was that in 1843, he apparently obtained a patent for a species of mechanical calculator, based on his experience with watch engineering. Again, in the Anglo world we are taught that computing began with Ada Lovelace and Charles Babbage, then nothing much happened for a century, then Alan Turing came along, then electronics happened. So thanks again for the lockdown challenge, I've gained zero watches and some interesting new knowledge, duly shared.
    Back to watches - please can anyone enlighten me, what happened to the Garnier company after about 1960?
    Thanks for reading, stay safe, all.
     
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  7. JwRosenthal

    JwRosenthal May 2, 2020

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    Not familiar with the brand but this was the era of once heralded and failing brands being bought, consolidated and downgraded (think Gruen, Waltham, Elgin). Taking away any brand cache which most of these 60’s divers don’t have), if it’s an all stainless case, 17+ Jeweled Swiss movement, larger than 36mm and functional- I would say around $250-350 USD. Plated case, anything over $250 is too much. If you can get it under $100- win! It’s got a cool case shape and very readable dial.
     
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  8. Just Livin

    Just Livin May 2, 2020

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    Had tracked a couple that sadly shot up in the last day of bidding.
    None the less have a couple of new ones in the Watch List.
    Good luck to those participating :thumbsup:
     
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  9. TimeODanaos

    TimeODanaos May 2, 2020

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    Yikes - maybe we're bidding against each other! :eek:;)
     
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  10. madjestikmoose

    madjestikmoose May 3, 2020

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    I’m tracking this one, but I reckon it’ll go for two, three hundred.
     
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  11. TimeODanaos

    TimeODanaos May 7, 2020

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    Nine hours or so to run, still only at 54.00 GBP. So I've busted this week as far as @Just Livin 's £50 challenge goes. Sure, it could still climb a lot if Transatlantic bidders get on board, but I'm still quite pleased with the call. Looks a really nice 60s diver on a shoestring for someone!
     
  12. tikkathree

    tikkathree May 7, 2020

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    This is a ridiculous concept - don't you guys dare to try to tempt me...........

    no, not going past EBay now................

    dirty habit.......... you're all inveiglers! (Don't care how to spell it, you're all bad)
     
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  13. tyrantlizardrex

    tyrantlizardrex C is NOT for "Lizard". May 15, 2020

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    £50 on the nose.

    584874AE-8821-4B03-AE88-C3023A0BB939.jpeg DC78BB49-1F25-4DA1-9445-AB1C477C09A7.jpeg 6D3CFB4A-32CF-4050-B3E4-F073E9D53270.jpeg 6A825129-7732-45E1-B070-84CAC2AC5A58.jpeg F54A0123-1C45-4A87-BF53-57B8C90205D3.jpeg F9318DBF-BE84-4192-9046-5D1540D92C11.jpeg 81A82919-AD41-4766-BEC3-0BBC4A56EC3E.jpeg

    Probably because this was the one of the two terrible pictures on the listing:

    ADE40DF2-A680-40D0-B5F9-EF45DECCFACA.png
     
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  14. krogerfoot

    krogerfoot May 15, 2020

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    My thoughts exactly when I took a runner on this Citizen Homer Second Setting railway watch. The stamp on the back indicates it was issued in 1968 to the Tokyo Regional Department of the old National Railway. (I would love to learn more about these watches, especially the specificity of the markings. What's the purpose of indicating the particular line or region they were issued for? Could be fakes, but then again they're not particularly valued.)

    IMG_8046a.jpeg
    IMG_8023a.jpeg

    Edit: I was led astray by the equation £50 = US$75. It looks like it's really about sixty bucks, so the ¥8259 I spent overshoots the target by about £10.
     
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  15. DaveK

    DaveK Yoda of Yodelers May 15, 2020

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    Just take some 60 grit sandpaper to the crystal, that’ll drop the value down enough for this thread :thumbsup:

    Nice watch with a fun history to explore.
     
  16. larryganz

    larryganz The cable guy May 21, 2020

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    My son tells me, after the fact, that yes, everything on wish.com CAN be fake. The picture with the sale looks like a genuine PADI, but that is not what they are shipping. TBH, I'd only very recently heard of fake video cards on wish.com which made me check out the site - but I hadn't thought that they would take the time to fake a Seiko, or at least all the cosmetic parts. The watch however can be found for $300 from reputable sites, well below the $525 MSRP, so I'm glad they didn't charge me that much and it was $65 out the door after adding $10 shipping.

    FAKE
    IMG_5969.jpeg

    MY GENUINE PADI TURTLE
    IMG_4233.jpeg

    Fake bezel with wrong lume pip, and the numbers and markers on the bezel are farther out from the dial than they should be. The red lines on the chapter ring at 3, 6, 9, and 12 are thin and faded and don't line up with the hour markers on the dial like my PADI.

    The fake dial has very weak lume, and the PADI font is significantly thinner, plus the dial states NH36 (3rd party) and not 4R36 (for Seiko watches). I know there are two dial variations on the PADI that both mention Japan for either the whole watch or for just the movement, but the fake would represent a variation that we have never seen.

    Also, the day wheel is not lined up properly in the window for most days of the week, and the font in the date window is wrong (no serif on the 1), so likely even a fake date wheel. The signed Seiko bracelet clasp feels cheap and gritty, and is difficult to close on the wrist unless you wiggle it from side to side when pushing it closed, or press the clasp side buttons, so I'm not sure I'd trust it to put the bracelet on a genuine Seiko watch like my new waffle dial turtle.

    If you shine a bright flashlight beam on the real Seiko and the fake, the genuine Seiko is brighter; and 4 minutes later the genuine Seiko is still electrified out the wazoo while the fake dial lume has faded to zero.

    IMG_5967.jpeg
    IMG_5970.jpeg
    IMG_5973.jpeg

    I'm taking it to my watchmaker tomorrow. I would be surprised if the movement is a genuine Seiko movement in good working order and properly lubricated, although I have seen new NH36 movements advertised for sale for $59 to the public. And I know my watchmaker will do a movement swap with a genuine movement for $100 parts and labor, so it might be worth the cost of the movement alone. I could return it, gift it, report it for a refund, or it might be a watch to use as the bones for a "mod seiko" with parts from Yobokies or something (doubtful).

    I'll likely report this to my credit card company (Goldman Sachs Apple Card via Apple Pay) - the watch was presented as genuine Seiko PADI and I have saved the web page as a webarchive and as a PDF (as well as each picture) as proof that I didn't get what I ordered. It might not even be worth sending back and wasting the postage.
     
  17. studeb

    studeb May 21, 2020

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    It kills me when i see fakes like this. If they put a little more effort into it they could nail it....
     
  18. Eric304

    Eric304 May 21, 2020

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    $40 out of pocket
     
    IMG_3256.jpg
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  19. JwRosenthal

    JwRosenthal May 21, 2020

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    I like your idea of turning lemons into limoncello. If the case parts are compatible with SKX parts, you could put together a very nice Type II diver from the wreckage of that watch.
    84883C14-8E5E-41FF-A93A-2E7F10FCD79B.jpeg
     
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  20. larryganz

    larryganz The cable guy May 22, 2020

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    So, the movement is definitely a cheap Chinese FAKE, and it's not even WR to 30M, let alone 200M. It leaks out air in the vacuum test, and is WR 20M. It's running decently at a consistent -8 to -11 sec/day on the winder for the past day and a half.

    My watchmaker doesn't think any part of the watch is genuine, and brought out a new movement to show me the comparison. He also days the dial is not on straight, rather than the day wheel and chapter ring being off.

    FAKE MOVEMENT in a plastic holder. So, not even a generic NH36 for me.
    IMG_5981.jpeg

    Genuine NEW unused Seiko 4R36 that my watchmaker had on hand.
    IMG_5987.jpeg