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Is this bezel legit for a Seamaster 120 ???

  1. omegastar

    omegastar Apr 1, 2016

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    I need the respectable members opinion on this Seamaster 120's Bezel. I believe it is weird, especially the 4 in 40 and the gloss. Thank you for you expertise.
    Mounir
    upload_2016-4-1_19-1-5.png
    upload_2016-4-1_19-1-41.png
    upload_2016-4-1_19-2-23.png
     
  2. cimo

    cimo Apr 1, 2016

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    Something is definitely fishy. They should have a matte finish rather than gloss. And they are almost universally faded/ghosted at this point.

    At best, it's a repainted original.

    At worst, it's an incorrect replacement.
     
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  3. cristos71

    cristos71 Apr 1, 2016

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    Here´s my old one to compare. Many differences. The hands on yours also look a little blunt at the ends.

    059.JPG
    062.JPG
     
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  4. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Apr 1, 2016

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    The original Seamaster 120 bezel should have a matte finish and more of a 4 sided 4, like Cristos I believe. If the bezel is glossy, I don't think it is original. I'd also be concerned about the case as well. There should be a notch in the case at 3 and 9"o'clock. Sorry.

    See below.
    Correct original case with notch
    image.jpeg
    Correct original case with notch
    image.jpeg

    Service case, no notch, service bezel
    image.jpeg

    Service case, no notch, service bezel, incorrect crown
    image.jpeg
     
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  5. omegastar

    omegastar Apr 2, 2016

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    Thank you guys for your answers.
    @gemini4, I have to study that notch thing.
    @cristos71 it is not my watch, it is for sale.
     
  6. TNTwatch

    TNTwatch Apr 2, 2016

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    What makes you think a service case instead of another legit variant or outright fake? Can you post some pictures of the case back inside and outside for both of them?
     
  7. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Apr 2, 2016

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    You're right. It could from a different Omega or a fake. I only know it's not original to a Seamaster 166.027.

    The caseback on that particular watch was a legit (I think) 166.027.

    image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
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  8. omegastar

    omegastar Apr 2, 2016

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  9. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Apr 2, 2016

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  10. ChrisN

    ChrisN Apr 2, 2016

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    Many issues as @cristos71 noted and already at €500+...:eek:

    Looks original but if someone is selling watches at €1700+ (unbelievable for that example) you'd think they could fit a new crystal. Perhaps for the Speedy boys who like a "ghost bezel", this has a "ghost hippocampus" and oh, that movement and minute hand::facepalm2::

    Seems like the prices of these are on the up. Great watches though and a really good size.

    Cheers, Chris
     
  11. Bill Sohne

    Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 2, 2016

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    Caseback engraving seems off to me.
     
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  12. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Apr 2, 2016

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    because?
     
  13. Bill Sohne

    Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 2, 2016

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    I sold my example 10 plus years ago , but the hypo-campus engraving looks odd to me .
     
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  14. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Apr 2, 2016

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    Hi Bill. I compared my caseback to this recent posting of a 165.027
    https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-seamaster-120-165-027-166-027-help-needed.35472/
    I thought the engraving appeared the same although the 165.027 is more worn.

    I can post pics of some others if needed.

    As that 166.027 was a disappointment (unoriginal bezel and case) I wouldn't have been surprised if the caseback had an issue. I think it doesn't and hope that it finds a better home soon.
     
    Edited Apr 2, 2016
  15. dragoman

    dragoman Apr 2, 2016

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    The oddity, IMO, is that the engraving is too thick and too deep. Usually these 120 engravings are almost hard to see even in NOS pieces.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    While I am not aware of a faked XXX.027 SM 120 ever, the one in the first post looks odd in way too many features (glossy bezel, case without notchs (a very good point!), hands without pointy ends, caseback engraving way too thick and deep); it would take a lot of explaining by the seller.

    I would pass
     
  16. ChrisN

    ChrisN Apr 3, 2016

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    I was going to post the same thoughts on the case back as @dragoman with a picture of mine. I wonder @gemini4 if it's just the picture you've taken that makes it look that way. Perhaps one using a tripod and natural light would show your case back to be the same? The drawing appears absolutely correct to me.

    Regards, Chris
     
  17. TNTwatch

    TNTwatch Apr 3, 2016

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    Your eyes and memory are amazing!
    Your gentlemen's good eyes made me look more closely at @gemini4's case back, and I found reasons to believe it is not a genuine back:
    -Beside the thick medallion stamping, there are several wrong details on the seahorse: the eye is angry, the curve from the eye to the ear is crude, and missing an upside down Y on the front leg/fin.
    -The inside engraving is also crude, with the wrong Ω symbol. Most clearly, the perlage pattern looks just like that on the back of many of the fake Constellation 14900/14902. On the real back the swirl marks are overlapped everywhere while on the fake one, there's a separation between the flat area and the slope area.

    By extension, the mid case without those notches is also fake along with the shiny bezel. It's disappointed for @gemini4 to have found this result, but you've really helped everyone by pointing out the missing notches on the case. Thumbs up for you!

    While I have found very little wrong with the dial of the watch in the OP, I've found a 166.027 sold last year on ebay for near $1k that has fake case, fake bezel, fake back and also a fake dial too. The clue for the dial is in the crude date window surround - just like that on those fake Constellation and unlike the real one like Cristo's. Looking back the history of this seller turns up a couple of Chronostops with fake dial and a couple franken fake 105.003's that look just similar to those franken fake 145.022-69's popping up recently. And this seller is from California too.

    So there you go, fake vintage SM 120 has arrived, and for sometime already, along with fake vintage Speedy's.

    This is a fake dial:
    upload_2016-4-3_6-49-4.png

    These are genuine case back with the overlapped swirl marks:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  18. ChrisN

    ChrisN Apr 3, 2016

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    @TNTwatch , thanks for such a real in depth analysis.

    Earlier, I compared the case back from @gemini4 to mine and I'll now add a picture of mine for future reference. I did not see those small details that you did. Those are clear to me now.
    SM120 back.jpg
    @gemini4 it is a real shame and I do feel for you if this is true.

    Here's a decent shot of my dial just to put everything together. I believe this is totally original, even the wonky lume at 4 O'clock. The date window is not black, it's just the lighting.

    pre_dial.jpg
    Regards, Chris
     
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  19. Bill Sohne

    Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 3, 2016

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  20. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Apr 3, 2016

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    Thanks for all the messages of condolence. However, this 166.027 (my first sm120) purchase was an a $500 learning experience into what not to buy when looking for a sm120 in the future. At least I have a 565 movement to use for parts! Since this purchase, I've manage to right my ship and source all 4 of the original, and hopefully correct, diver SM120.

    I've posted a new thread with pics and descriptions of the 4

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/my-...ers-what-to-look-for-and-what-to-avoid.38032/
     
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