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Is This Another Speedmaster Auction Gone Crazy

Marsimaxam
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I noticed what appears to be a either an Omega Speedmaster 145.022-68 transitional or a 145.012-68 in superb condition at an auction house in Connecticut. The description is minimal at best. The bidding is now at 12,000 USD and with buyers premium, 20%, comes to 14,400 USD.
Seems a little high, especially if a transitional, but watch does appear to be in amazing condition , however, no image of the movement (321 or 861) or inside case back. Your thoughts on this one...

Willing to bid more?

https://fairfieldauction.hibid.com/lot/67713-243998-28819/omega-speedmaster-chronograph-gents-wrist-watch
5A376719-9026-444F-91AF-AB9DBE9C5FFB.jpeg
BC4A25A8-859D-490D-AD88-E42227D29025.jpeg 4E109F05-B267-4CE2-B6E4-52F8C3943DBA.jpeg F0818C6C-EBD6-4C97-8CE6-C40F4544FB44.jpeg E46DED04-A163-4C5C-A2AB-F8BFAE5A6D08.jpeg DA55C4F1-0140-45DF-AB4D-0FB513AA00BD.jpeg 589C1DCB-96D9-46F9-B8CB-319FE5400088.jpeg 0AB7EE2F-6ED5-4873-9198-BF3D1AF11239.jpeg 7E20E786-154D-40D3-9ED9-9BEDBAC3EAF0.jpeg D72D2E8B-8EA8-4076-902B-26DCCDE0164B.jpeg
Edited:
 
bazamu
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Price is high and my guess is that it's ultimately a collector who wins this auction, as it's already into a price bracket where dealers would likely struggle to make a meaningful profit. With that said, this is one of the best Speedmasters that I've seen "fresh to market" in years - what's unclear to me is if the high bidder at the moment thinks this is a 321? My own inclination based solely on the pictures is that it's a -68 transitional with an 861 movement.
 
ndgal
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This mid case is unique to the 145.022-68 Transitional reference.
 
Marsimaxam
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ndgal ndgal
This mid case is unique to the 145.022-68 Transitional reference.
I respect your opinion and considering you believe,as I do, that the watch in question is indeed a transitional... do you believe the bidding has gone too high, or have transitionals gone up dramatically in the last year. A very similar one, not quite as good, sold last year at Sotheby's for 11,875 (hammer 9,500 USD) which includes the buyer's premium.

I'm considering acquiring a transitional, but not at this price.

https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auc...k/omega-speedmaster-145-022-68-transitional-a
 
ndgal
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Marsimaxam Marsimaxam
you believe
I don't "Believe." I know. There's a difference.

Marsimaxam Marsimaxam
do you believe the bidding has gone too high, or have transitionals gone up dramatically in the last year
It is definitely creeping towards high retail. But again, look at the condition. I sold a similar one for more.
People with money can't travel. Can't spend and shop like they used to pre-COVID. Most buying and shopping is done online and at auctions. This has actually resulted in a spike in prices.
The watch market is on fire. Pretty much everything is up. Just look at the recent auctions.

Marsimaxam Marsimaxam
not quite as good
Exactly...

Marsimaxam Marsimaxam
I'm considering acquiring a transitional, but not at this price.
It won't be in this condition then. Unless you're very lucky to find one yourself with no other people competing with you...
 
Dan S
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ndgal ndgal
People with money can't travel. Can't spend and shop like they used to pre-COVID. Most buying and shopping is done online and at auctions. This has actually resulted in a spike in prices.
The watch market is on fire. Pretty much everything is up. Just look at the recent auctions.

I definitely underestimated this aspect. We have more time to devote to our hobbies and interests and we are looking for entertainment. A similar dynamic is at play in fantasy sports / sports gambling, which is also through the roof.
 
repoman
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Quality vintage is going asymptotic in price. I just bought a '68 transitional for $2700, it was a bargain but had some issues (being corrected now at the spa) - there are deals out there but you have to be vigilant and quick. If you want high quality, open up your checkbook.
 
jsducote
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Marsimaxam Marsimaxam
however, no image of the movement (321 or 861) or inside case back. Your thoughts on this
You see that blue button labelled "ask auctioneer a question" ... I wonder what it does 😉
 
Marsimaxam
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jsducote jsducote
You see that blue button labelled "ask auctioneer a question" ... I wonder what it does 😉
I did... they said they couldn't get it opened and would try again this week.
 
repoman
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repoman repoman
Quality vintage is going asymptotic in price. I just bought a '68 transitional for $2700, it was a bargain but had some issues (being corrected now at the spa) - there are deals out there but you have to be vigilant and quick. If you want high quality, open up your checkbook.

Since Adam (at Lewis Watch Co. posted a pic today, I'll go ahead and share my newly serviced '68)... It also came with a 1039/516 bracelet, not pictured.
68SpeedyLewisWatchCo.jpg
Edited:
 
ndgal
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Marsimaxam Marsimaxam
I did... they said they couldn't get it opened and would try again this week.
Hello caseback scratches!
 
watchlovr
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Very nice examples, but the OP one from the ongoing auction (now at $13,000) is a peach, very hard to find in this condition.
Here's my own humble example for comparison with the rest.

75749B69-EAC0-4563-B753-AC70B763BCC1_1_201_a.jpeg 1723F58C-2FB5-4A28-9A90-D57142526EF0_1_201_a.jpeg
 
M
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Marsimaxam Marsimaxam
I did... they said they couldn't get it opened and would try again this week.
I'd called them today too - said they didn't have the tool to open the caseback...and went on to add that since High Bid is $13K, people bidding already know what the reference must be! 🤔

At least no caseback scratches here...@ndgal ...care educate what is the unique identifying feature of this sub-reference mid case is?
 
ndgal
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M myatt
@ndgal ...care educate what is the unique identifying feature of this sub-reference mid case is?

Most 145.022-68 Transitionals share the same mid-case as their predecessor references 145.012-67/68.
However, there is a batch of Transitionals from around March-April 1969 (as far as I can tell according to the examples I have had go through my hands so far) where the case profile was slightly changed. (the OP watch is one of those)
These cases were still manufactured by Huguenin Freres.

The sides have more of a rounded sweep and the "Footprint" of the bottom of the lugs is bigger (reminiscent of a CB case).
Here is one example from my archives:






Here is a February 1969 Transitional with the "Regular" mid-case carried over from the 145.012-67/68







*You will not find this info in "Moonwatch Only".... 😉
Edited:
 
Marsimaxam
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ndgal ndgal
Most 145.022-68 Transitionals share the same mid-case as their predecessor references 145.012-67/68.
However, there is a batch of Transitionals from around March-April 1969 (as far as I can tell according to the examples I have had go through my hands so far) where the case profile was slightly changed. (the OP watch is one of those)
These cases were still manufactured by Huguenin Freres.

The sides have more of a rounded sweep and the "Footprint" of the bottom of the lugs is bigger (reminiscent of a CB case).
Here is one example from my archives:






Here is a February 1969 Transitional with the "Regular" mid-case carried over from the 145.012-67/68







*You will not find this info in "Moonwatch Only".... 😉
Stunning examples both... wow!
And I learned something too...
 
ndgal
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Here are both type of MKI & MKII mid cases observed on the 145.022-68 "Transitional" reference side by side for convenience



 
ndgal
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You will notice that the side profiles and footprint of the unique mid-case (MKII) observed on the 145.022-68 Transitional is identical to the 105.012-CB mid-case. Sans the "Flat-top" lugs of course...






I've always been curious as to what happened during this period of the Speedmaster Professional manufacturing timeline which resulted in the use of these mid-cases.
Are they in fact leftover CB mid-cases? Did someone at Omega find a box of leftover CB's and decided to re-purpose them?
Corrected the "messed up" lug finishing by Centrale Boites, fitted them with screw-in pushers, and rolled them into the production line?
I guess we'll never know the answer to that one...
 
lexieb007
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One sold on ebay a few weeks ago for just under $10,000 - several bidders genuine auction started at 5,000 estate sale
 
ndgal
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Sold for $15,600.00 all in.
*Or $16,250.00 if the bidder was going through liveauctioneers.com
 
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