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Is this a re-lume?

Ragazzo
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Dan S is going to be mad that I’m posting another Speedy question. I’m learning, though!

This eBay auction just came up. Is it a re-lume?

Things I see:

Good: case has strong lines, bracelet is correct and original, face has tropical patina.

Bad: bezel is aftermarket, I believe the hands are replacements, and I think it’s a re-lume.

Assuming this was actually a late 1969 watch (originally a DN90 bezel), I’m guessing the value is in the $8k range. Low for a tropical face due to the non-original condition of many components.

The re-lume for me is the biggest deal-breaker, but I wanted to know if I was assessing it correctly. I thought the 3 o’clock and 5 o’clock lines looked a little funny. Overall, if it is in fact a re-lume, not the worst I’ve seen, but a re-lume nonetheless.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335345847802?epid=24055221164&itmmeta=01HVBQ5DZNC24QJR67M19A2VWP&hash=item4e142b8dfa:g:Vl4AAOSwDstmGAfo&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA4Ml9aafQCTuCWufKsSh0gpi0fqNs7n+gG18iyvfbmKAIXFYCKnAg53KraNvw0IrK+rfF1JYnZrfiQo2BxTHzv3FIqskJY60D8zV1igytxWcoMlb0tjlxz9tZbgJuX2IhOfyYWADsdnGDjFPNAgNe5pO25GgC4a2Xk4i4wOyuY1aVXOe2YdI7XO1hSXrCoF4s90F6bZW/LYns/vR+QlgiaEwA1gMCOYT9k9Y4NBwJfYmIRwJYkR47TOItLpInor5oasLlhusdHKIjQ7908l0YZ93BvDf3RW+iODA6UncG7KhP|tkp:Bk9SR_jflffaYw&LH_Auction=1
 
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hansaboy
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It is fun to follow your hunt, so keep it up!
Can you ask for more pictures showing the watch in more natural light?
The pictures the seller shows are not the best....

And the watch should have a DON.
The serial nr places the watch with the batches that could have brown dials.
But 8000 USD feels way too high maybe??
 
Ragazzo
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hansaboy hansaboy
It is fun to follow your hunt, so keep it up!
Can you ask for more pictures showing the watch in more natural light?
The pictures the seller shows are not the best....

And the watch should have a DON.
The serial nr places the watch with the batches that could have brown dials.
But 8000 USD feels way too high maybe??

Maybe I'm overvaluing due to the brown dial. I was aiming for spending more along the lines of $5k, so hopefully you're right about the value. 😀
 
hansaboy
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You need better pictures, but it could be worth more....
 
Ragazzo
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hansaboy hansaboy
You need better pictures, but it could be worth more....

I just hit "send" on the additional photos request. 😉
 
Dan S
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The value of a brown dial depends greatly on how brown it really is. Sometimes they only look a little dirty brown in direct sunlight, and they aren't terribly desirable. I'm guessing this is one of those, and the seller is hard-pressed to make it look good. The mismatched lume in the hands and dial is also unattractive. The bracelet is desirable, but stretched. You need to see the endlinks.

Generally speaking, I think you are wasting your time trolling eBay for Speedmasters. It's the dumping ground for watches that can't be sold to collectors. 99% will be mediocre and tampered with.

As for the OP question, I see no reason to think it's a re-lume, the lume is discolored and shows a break at the dial step. Of course, you'd need macro photos and UV shots to know for sure. But overall, I don't think that's the major issue with this watch. It's just not appealing.
Edited:
 
pitbos
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I think this brown dial could be a nice one. Has that reddish brown tone that I personally like. Can’t tell anything about case and dial condition from the photos. Also, the lume on the 12,1, 6, 9 and 11 appear to be dirty, which is a turn off for some. Sourcing a DON bezel is an expensive proposition, but could be worth it depending on the condition of the rest of the watch and the final auction price. You will need better photos (ask for as many as possible, unedited, in natural light and close ups) in order to determine the overall condition and see whether it’s worth taking a shot at it. For some buyers, the appeal/look of the particular brown dial will make them overlook other condition/correctness issues. Get some more photos!
 
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ibis888
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Does “bezel is aftermarket” mean it’s a fake? At first glance, I figured that the bezel was an authentic DO90.

Was it disclosed in the listing? I know there are fakes out there, I guess I didn’t realize that people are openly selling them as “aftermarket.”

Edit: I just found the Speedmaster 101 page on the topic. I guess I didn’t realize how easy it is to source “replicas.” Ooof.
Edited:
 
padders
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Not relumed. But not particularly brown either. Ugly hands. Not one to chase IMO. But then we are working with limited data.
 
Ragazzo
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padders padders
Not relumed. But not particularly brown either. Ugly hands. Not one to chase IMO. But then we are working with limited data.

I’m pretty sure the hands are aftermarket as well. Appear to be done with a black insert instead of the original lume one.

I’m looking for a daily-wear type of watch, so I’m not looking for a pristine example. I’m a little iffy on this particular one due to the aftermarket parts (assuming both the bezel and the hands), but those bother me less than if someone had re-lumed it. Something about painting over things just doesn’t do it for me.
 
Davidt
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It’s not a black insert on the hands, it’s just mouldy lume.
I see no evidence of a relume, if it had been done it would look much better, as would the hands.

I’m also not seeing evidence of the bezel being aftermarket.
 
140dave
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The bezel fonts are wrong, and the seller says it’s a replacement
 
Davidt
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I’m not seeing the usual tells for a fake DoN bezel. Perhaps I’m out of date with the latest fakes.
 
hansaboy
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One give away is the 130, look at it closely and compare with a true DON.
 
ibis888
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I guess good on the seller for disclosing it. Scary to see these start to show up on "lower" end DO90 watches.
 
Ragazzo
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pitbos pitbos
What in the?!….
Someone really wanted the brown dial? Wasn’t me on this one.
 
ibis888
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There’s a 105.012-66 currently for sale in the Private Sales for over $2k less than this watch went for… that I personally find vastly superior.
 
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