This may be a bit controversial, but I have been mulling this over for a while and am interested in views of the more experienced.

It does strike me as a little odd that what we seem to like about many Rolex watches is that they show significant decay, particularly of hands, bezels and dials. This seems to happen at a fairly young age with many 80s Rolex GMT and Subs showing marked "patination".

There are many 60s, 70s and earlier, non Rolex watches where all the bits that have been selected merely look old rather than deteriorated. They dont have spider dials and massively yellowing Lume. There bezels have faded a bit, rather than worn out.

Did Rolex just choose poor quality components for the cosmetics? Or am I missing something here? Don't get me wrong, I really love the look of yellowing lume, and the non-new look of vintage watches. I have a Tudor Sub and a GMT with ghosting bezels. It just seems weird that we pay a premium for rot and decay.

Any views? I await the beatings

 

I have a 1927 Rolex with full Arabic numeral dial, non-water resist, the lume is in excellent condition. Same with my early 1940s Rolex Royalite. Same with my 1970 Rolex Air-King. Same with my late '80s Rolex GMT II. The impression I get is that Rolex doesn't seems to have shown any worse deterioration than the myriad other brands of antique and vintage watches that appear on this site.

 

Not sure what you mean by deteriorated lume. In my experience Rolex ages much more gracefully than other makes, I believe they sealed their watches better than everyone else.

 

They also tend to use better alloys in their cases.

I think what your seeing is there is just more of them available which gives more chances for good patina. You could argue because they are better made they patina better instead of being ruined. I've never seen a water damaged dial on a Rolex.

 

As others have noted, because of the quality of their cases, Rolex dials tend to be relatively well-preserved. However, when thinking about your question in a broader context, dial degradation is typically a reflection of the quality of the finishing lacquers used. That is why some vintage Omega dials tend to show more degradation than, say, Longines or IWC of the same period. It wasn't because of inferior cases, but the lacquers used.

 

There are undoubtedly very beautiful and very well preserved Rolex in captivity.

On reflection, perhaps what I think I am seeing reflects:
a. The very large number of Rolex watches out there, so you are going to see more in absolute numbers that are in worn out condition, and
b. The ones that are being sold maybe more likely to be the tired ones, rather than the beautiful ones.

I love the look, just wondering about the implications

 

Maybe you are looking in the wrong places?

 

Don't forget most subs in the 70-80s were dive watches used by divers and outdoors people. I used to waterski a lot in the 80s and subs were the watch of choice for most with a bit of cash that didn't end up going into the boat.

It only seems the last 25 years they are thought of as dress watches and a status symbol and not a mainly tool watch where the actually came from.

Bit like old 4x4s of the 70s they were mostly used by people that needed a 4x4 and drove them off road all the time. Look around in cities now days most don't see a dirt road in their life.

 

Apart from the 904 Stainless Steel, what else are there? 904 was introduced in 1987, so isn't even used in the vintage references...

 

The Transitional RE2 ref 16550 1986/87 was a Wardrobe Malfunction

Not Russel Brand wardrobe malfunction. Thank Goodness he was wearing loose baggy pants & not tight skinny jeans !
A defective white paint turned creamy colored dial from a Supplier
Rolex tried to fix the problem by taking back the follow-on models
A Major Disaster turned into a Blessing for Rolex ! You now have to pay serious premium for a Rare Mistake & its not even vintage patina

 

Posting late at night and thinking " at least recently" and typing it are different things. You are right.

 

Here is a 1927 Rolex dress model for the English market. 9 karat case. I know, I know, I'm going to hear a chorus of redial from all directions. I've owned this watch for 40 years. I am the third owner. Redial? The topic of this thread includes discussion regarding discolouration of luminous material. If this is an original Rolex dial, not bad. If it's a re-dial? Can't say. How can anyone know for certain on an 89 year old watch?

 

Hey, what do I know? They could well be excellent at mixing 18/14 KT gold - AFAIK these aren't made to a set mixture. Would be interesting to know if some brands did things differently. I have seen some Longines 18 KT yellow gold cases that looked somewhat different from other makers.

 

I don't know if Rolex used different materials or manufacturing processes resulting in better or worse long-term quality.

What I do know is that different manufacturers can have far different requirements for the same products. I have worked in automotive for more more than 2 decades, and for several companies that supply to all OEM car companies. I know first hand that each OEM has very different test requirements for things like life-cycle, durability and performance testing. This has a big impact on what materials and components end up being used for each. While all products meet certain "minimum requirements" in the short term, the long term results often vary greatly. I think it is a safe assumption that similar variation exists in watch manufacturers and so it is very possible that long term degradation between watches and dials could differ significantly.

I also know that new products, solutions and manufacturing techniques are being developed all the time. Some manufacturers are quick to try new ones (if they perceive a benefit either from better product, lower cost, etc) and others are very cautious and slow to adapt.

Finally, I also have seen first-hand that as top management people change, the behavior of one manufacturer can also change, and therefore it's quite possible that a manufacturer that uses superior products/processes at one point in time may not during other periods of time.

 

This piece spent its' life in the Philippines before I rescued it and subsequently moved it on, I don't think it did to bad given the climate ?



Yes I know I could have installed another crystal but it was the one eyed monster I couldn't live with.

 

Having oogled many hundreds of vintage Subs over the years, I've formed the opposite impression. I'm continually surprised by how well they age and hold up overall, ...especially versus vintage Speedmasters and Seamasters of the same era.

Except for bezel pearls. Apparently super-complicated, getting those to stay put.

 

I share the same opinion ... I consistently see "nicer than average" condition rolex watches ... even 40, 50 and 60 year old watches ... I also think I see fewer redials on Rolex than on Omega/Long./etc... (percentagewise)

as mentioned the reasons might be:

- hermetic oyster case
- sociocultural aspects (Rolex were always more targeted to hi-income folk (office people) - people who would work physically hard, might have found more appeal in a Seiko, etc...)
- higher sociocultural strata might be more prone to do regular service on a watch than people who bought a watch that cost 2x the price of a service ... (so it makes sense to just wear that watch out without service)
- unique Rolex caseback (most shadetree-watchmakers fail to get it open) ... pretty much the same reason why toploaders tend to have nicer-condition movements b/c they are tricky to open

One thing we *MIGHT* see in vintage Rolex is "fake" vintage patina ... I dont know how good those redialers are, when they manage to get lume dots to turn creamy vanilla coloured ... Heard all kinds of stories about applying coffee or tea to them ...

cheers
Al

 

I recently acquired this 1970 5513, and it is clean as a whistle. It almost bothers me how clean it is and that there isn't enough patina.

I specifically go out of my way to wear it out in the sun often to potentially speed up the aging process of the bezel and lume.

 

I don't know how hard or damaging it is to remove these inserts but if it were mine I know I would be seriously tempted to pop it out and leave it on the roof of my garden shed for a summer...

It's a great looking dial though. Very nice, love these no-dates.

 

Actually an idea worth considering!