- Posts
- 12,588
- Likes
- 16,985
Interesting photo I received today...
- Posts
- 14,255
- Likes
- 41,090
Canuck
路Closer examination of the one on the right, and, yes! By golly! Enlarged, one can see the tail of a typical regulator. How'd I miss that?
- Posts
- 3,719
- Likes
- 4,200
WatchVaultNYC
路A couple of thoughts about this:
1- The freaky thing is not the fake watch with the replica movement, but what's behind it. Basically you have a watch company who makes what is tantamount to watches with functional in-house movements (designed to look like Rolex movements). Thats a different league of adversary than those who just buy off the shelf movements and stuffs them into fake cases
2- What does this say about "in house movement snobbery"?
3 - I better get my self that Sub 14060 before the fakers start taking on vintage designs!
1- The freaky thing is not the fake watch with the replica movement, but what's behind it. Basically you have a watch company who makes what is tantamount to watches with functional in-house movements (designed to look like Rolex movements). Thats a different league of adversary than those who just buy off the shelf movements and stuffs them into fake cases
2- What does this say about "in house movement snobbery"?
3 - I better get my self that Sub 14060 before the fakers start taking on vintage designs!
- Posts
- 14,255
- Likes
- 41,090
Canuck
路As a poster on another message board said recently, that the Swiss had better watch out if the Chinese ever get serious about watchmaking. Of course, we suspect the fake is Chinese, but who knows?
- Posts
- 30,124
- Likes
- 35,923
dsio
路路Ash @ 惟FThankfully the 8500/9300 have a fairly high degree of difficulty in their design complexity, that dual barrel design, the co-axial escapement and SI14 balance while not impossible give you plenty of features to inspect, the other one is if its a Master Co-Axial I guess you could try to magnetise it. Irrespective of whether those unusual features are helpful in watchmaking terms they certainly contribute in anti-counterfeiting terms.
- Posts
- 5,265
- Likes
- 24,042
Spacefruit
路路Prolific Speedmaster HoarderAs a poster on another message board said recently, that the Swiss had better watch out if the Chinese ever get serious about watchmaking. Of course, we suspect the fake is Chinese, but who knows?
Remember in the 1950's, Made in Japan was an insult. Cars made of cheese, toys that fell apart. Now look at them. Grand Seiko, Lexus, Namiki Pens.
I reckon the Chinese are there. Its just a matter of time, if it has not happened already, before very high wuality components come out of China, and even whole new brands - true that will take time, but it seems the natural order of things that cultures evolve and make exceptional products eventually.
- Posts
- 707
- Likes
- 3,722
alfanator
路The Chinese are pragmatic, they build to a price point, and are perfectly capable of building ultra high quality items.
Most fakes are bought by people that know they are fakes, so it is not fooling the buyer, just the people they want to impress. Like costume jewelry.
These, however, are made to fake the buyer. That is a whole other ballgame, and been around in other markets for ages. These types of fakes ultimately affect the genuine market negatively, as it drives away new entrants (and casual collectors) for fear of being duped.
Most fakes are bought by people that know they are fakes, so it is not fooling the buyer, just the people they want to impress. Like costume jewelry.
These, however, are made to fake the buyer. That is a whole other ballgame, and been around in other markets for ages. These types of fakes ultimately affect the genuine market negatively, as it drives away new entrants (and casual collectors) for fear of being duped.
- Posts
- 441
- Likes
- 65
vinn2
路good show
- Posts
- 25,980
- Likes
- 27,627
ulackfocus
路Al, have you mentioned anything about the reverser wheels? Rolex are that burgundy color - does the fake have that copied correctly?
Yeah, we are an anal bunch of dweebs about our pet brands, aren't we?
No more difficult to fake those than a 3135. However far more money to be made with selling fakes of modern watches to people looking for a Rolex who have no knowledge of watches, than it is to scam a vintage collector who likely knows a lot more...
Yeah, we are an anal bunch of dweebs about our pet brands, aren't we?
- Posts
- 221
- Likes
- 83
Audley Yung
路wow thanks for the info man, although i won't be buying a rolex anytime soon, I'm book marking this just in case!
- Posts
- 27,580
- Likes
- 70,186
Archer
路路Omega Qualified WatchmakerAl, have you mentioned anything about the reverser wheels? Rolex are that burgundy color - does the fake have that copied correctly?
Yes it does copy it correctly.
- Posts
- 27,580
- Likes
- 70,186
Archer
路路Omega Qualified Watchmaker2- What does this say about "in house movement snobbery"?
I don't think anyone is saying this fake is the equivalent quality to a genuine Rolex movement (not that those are anything particularly special really anyway) but that the appearance is certainly there to a large extent.
The way a movement looks and performs when new is not really an indication of overall quality. For example inferior materials in terms of grades or hardness will have little impact at the start of the life of a movement, but will have a big impact down the road. The Chinese (if this is Chinese and most likely it is) are well known for their pretty horrible oiling of watch movements. I don't really work on these much (have only had a few in my shop), but speaking with watchmakers that work on them regularly they report pretty common oiling faults like some pivots oiled, some under oiled, and others left completely dry. If you have soft pivots, they won't last long if they are left dry...
I don't this in itself says much about the "in house" thing...whatever in-house really means...
Cheers, Al
- Posts
- 30,124
- Likes
- 35,923
dsio
路路Ash @ 惟FRemember in the 1950's, Made in Japan was an insult. Cars made of cheese, toys that fell apart. Now look at them. Grand Seiko, Lexus, Namiki Pens.
I reckon the Chinese are there. Its just a matter of time, if it has not happened already, before very high wuality components come out of China, and even whole new brands - true that will take time, but it seems the natural order of things that cultures evolve and make exceptional products eventually.
The thing is when the Japanese did begin to make quality equipment they had to charge accordingly, and the Chinese will too. I'm looking at buying some new IEMs shortly, a set of custom Noble Audio Kaiser 10s which are in fact made in China despite being $1600++ headphones.
Its like skilled labour in countries like India, you can hire an Indian IT worker for $1k/month and he'll be rubbish. The lead programmer we have working with us on the next evolution of Omegaforums is also Indian, lived there until university and is on well over $100k/year. He knows he's very talented and is aware of what his time is worth, the $1k/month guy is borderline useless, just as an Australian IT guy willing to code for $1k/month will be.
- Posts
- 16,741
- Likes
- 47,346
STANDY
路路schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collectorLike everything that is made in China for the bigger companies now. China make some good gear for them under strict controls but the plans end up out the back door and copied quicker than lightning.
We recently redone our kitchen and made a rule that nothing could be made in China. We had a few issues with US,European and Australian companies that have everything made in China now but we did it. It was only a little bit more than normal but even the tradies we got in could not believe some of the quality of what we bought compared to what they usually install.
Not anti China but get a bit over the cheap crap that has been pumped out of there for years. They will catch up eventually but will take a while for the current Cheap Chinese Crap stigma to disperse.
We recently redone our kitchen and made a rule that nothing could be made in China. We had a few issues with US,European and Australian companies that have everything made in China now but we did it. It was only a little bit more than normal but even the tradies we got in could not believe some of the quality of what we bought compared to what they usually install.
Not anti China but get a bit over the cheap crap that has been pumped out of there for years. They will catch up eventually but will take a while for the current Cheap Chinese Crap stigma to disperse.
- Posts
- 3,756
- Likes
- 8,544
blubarb
路路I might rise, but I refuse to shine.Damn depressing. I am on the lookout to find a 1680. Just makes it all a little bit harder as these crims will be right into the Cal 1575 as well I imagine.
- Posts
- 3,719
- Likes
- 4,200
WatchVaultNYC
路China is always cheapest due to the scale they can make things. My main business, manufacturing of custom luggage for roadsters, is done in the Philippines. It's a lot more expensive than China, but the luggage designs are intellectual property and I have no doubt that as soon as I have these things made in China, you'll start seeing my $200 roadster luggage being sold on Ali Baba for $20. And there goes the business.
- Posts
- 62
- Likes
- 30
kangajack
路I'd like to see the movement broken down further to see how deep the criminals are going
- Posts
- 314
- Likes
- 308
glownyc
路Like everything that is made in China for the bigger companies now. China make some good gear for them under strict controls but the plans end up out the back door and copied quicker than lightning.
We recently redone our kitchen and made a rule that nothing could be made in China. We had a few issues with US,European and Australian companies that have everything made in China now but we did it. It was only a little bit more than normal but even the tradies we got in could not believe some of the quality of what we bought compared to what they usually install.
Not anti China but get a bit over the cheap crap that has been pumped out of there for years. They will catch up eventually but will take a while for the current Cheap Chinese Crap stigma to disperse.
- Posts
- 16,741
- Likes
- 47,346
- Posts
- 381
- Likes
- 398
watchtinker
路.... the equivalent quality to a genuine Rolex movement (not that those are anything particularly special really anyway) ....
馃槑馃槑馃槑
Cheers,
Maurice
