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Interesting cal. 562 "Speedy Companion" Seamaster dial BUT...

  1. tomvox1 Mar 3, 2014

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    ...I'm not entirely convinced it's not simply a good redial:
    SMSpeedyCompanion.jpg
    It seems like it would be tough to duplicate the factory-style sunburst finish, the precision of the tick marks and I don't see any centering notches at "12" or "3" that normally indicate a redial. But the print/fonts do not look quite right and most of these that I have seen (small sample) are SWISS MADE T not double T. So... what do the pros think?
    Thanks & best,
    T.
     
  2. Lex4TDI4Life Mar 3, 2014

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    Redial or not, that re-lume is a bit sloppy, particularly at 3 o'clock.
     
  3. tomvox1 Mar 3, 2014

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    True and I agree. But sometimes moisture incursion through the years can swell original lume. In general, you're right though--Omega lume is usually neater/flatter on these sorts of dials.
    Best,
    T.
     
  4. Joe K. Curious about this text thingy below his avatar Mar 3, 2014

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    First, there is something about the lines that is off. It doesn't look as crisp as I would expect. However, I think its the dial finish that gives it away. In all the "companion" dials that I have seen and owned (see picture below) the dial finish was a matte blck finish, the same type of finish you would find aon a 70's Speedmaster dial.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Noisy Nova Mar 3, 2014

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    Groovy watch Joe. That's one I would like to own someday.
     
  6. tomvox1 Mar 3, 2014

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    That is an excellent point re: the should-be matte finish. I suppose there's an outside chance they could have put this lume pattern on a "sunburst" type dial but, as you say, have yet to see another. Your example does prove, however, that T SWISS MADE T configuration can exist and is probably all down to chronology as with the other Omega dress dials, i.e. one T earlier in the 60s, 2 Ts later and onward.
    Thanks & best.
    T.
     
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  7. Joe K. Curious about this text thingy below his avatar Mar 3, 2014

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    Here is another shot showing the T SWISS MADE T:

    [​IMG]

     
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  8. tomvox1 Mar 4, 2014

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    Cheers, Joe, thanks for taking the time--much appreciated.
    Best regards,
    Tom
     
  9. PCLMS May 4, 2014

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    Hi Everyone,

    I cant believe I finally found another example of this! I have almost the exact same dial (only differences is a square outline on the date window and swiss made T). I posted a thread before with all the info I could find:


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Sorry for the crappy phone pics (best camera I have).

    I recently acquired a vintage Omega on an impulse buy. When I first saw it I fell in love because how similar the dial looked to a speedmaster; a dress watch version of the speedmaster dial. I had never seen an omega like this before. I know you're supposed to buy watches on ebay with your brain and not your heart but I couldn't resist.

    Before I did make the purchase though, I tried doing some research on the watch. I didn't find anything that looked exactly like this watch which made me a little hesitant but everything else (to me) seemed like it was legitimate. On the ebay listingPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network, the seller provided ample pictures of the watch and movement, info about the serial number and reference number etc. and it seemed that everything was in good shape and still had evidence with the degraded lume and hands and a small mark on the omega logo that it was old and the dial was not repainted. I did not pay the full buy me now price (quite a lot lower than $680). Apparently it is a 1966 (as evidenced by the serial number) seamaster calibre 565 (reference number 166.002 as seen in the picture and not what he wrote down).

    I first tried looking at omega's vintage database and searched the ref 166.002 and found two entries. One entry was a seamaster 166.0002 year 1962 with a possible cal of 565, date function, same hands, crown and 24 jewels like mine. What was different was that in the picture it had applied hour markers (which is what is usually found on seamasters) and had the Geneve signature (?). The other entry was a seamaster ref 166.0037 1966-1970 calibre 565 24 jewels date function and same hands. This one also had applied markings and the crown was different. I know the omega vintage database isn't entirely complete so I tried finding other examples of similar looking omegas and this is what I found:

    Omega Speedmaster Companion Project

    Special Omega Story

    These reference a similar tritium hour marks dial without the date... but are Seamaster 600s (ST 135.011). They also mention the term "Speedmaster Companion".

    Three Technical Dials

    This thread has the omega most similar to the one I bought. There is mention of a 565 movement and reference 166.002. The dial of the watch has the same styling but the one in the thread has the crosshairs. They also seem to have a matte finish on the dial whereas mine seems to have a lustrous (sun burst?) finish.

    Omega Seamaster Steel Automatic 1966

    This last page is from what seems to be a reputable watch seller. They have a lot of info on the history of the watch similar looking to mine. This one does not have a date function though, has the crosshairs, and is ref 165.002. It mentions calibre 565, serial number being correct for 1966, and correct crown.

    This is all the info I came up with and even though not finding an exact match of the watch somewhere else I still bought it. It is running quite well at minus 2 seconds a day. The dial is more of a grey/light charcoal than black. I am hoping that you guys would have some information on this watch... frankenwatch? legitimate? Would it be worth getting it serviced again (seller said he serviced recently). Whatever it may be I would love to know more about this watch.

    I hope you guys will be able to help and I apologize for the massive wall of text. Thanks in advance!




    ... a forum member here MKelley also had a similar dial [​IMG]

    and another one also popped up on another forum from the poster Alimamy:

    I, too, own one of these. 166.002, 1967 (1966?), calibre 565. Everything seems to check out. Just a rare dial?

    [​IMG]

    Hopefully we can get more info on these watches!

    Cheers.
     
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  10. tomvox1 May 6, 2014

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    Super cool dial -- really, really like this "scientific" layout on a dress model.
    I think if anything, the images you post here somewhat prove that the dial I originally posted about is probably not original Omega.
    Just the placement/style of the SWISS MADE and the overall lack of crispness to the fonts in comparison with yours seals it for me.
    Thanks very much and for all that good extra info/research, as well! :thumbsup:
    Best regards,
    Tom
     
  11. PCLMS May 6, 2014

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    I was thinking the opposite. The addition of other examples of the dial gives more evidence to the one you posted being an original dial. In my opinion, the dial you posted looks all good with crispness of the fonts and markers. I do, however, think the dial was re-lumed (I agree with Lex4TDI4Life) which would explain the swelling and sloppy lume hour markers.

    Earlier in the thread, Joe K. says that for him it's the dial finish that gives it away: sunburst dial and not a matte black finish for the ones he has seen before. You go on saying that "there's an outside chance they could have put this lume pattern on a "sunburst" type dial" but you "have yet to see another". I have just posted a couple of examples of this dial pattern on a sunburst dial so to me that means that there are "companion dials" out there that are not just matte black but do indeed have a sunburst finish.

    The only other thing is the T SWISS MADE T. On the other examples I posted, the dials have SWISS MADE T. However, Joe K.'s example does prove that "that T SWISS MADE T configuration can exist" which were your own words. All in all, I think it's an original dial that was re-lumed. I'm interested to see how others weigh in on the matter.

    Cheers.
     
  12. Alimamy May 6, 2014

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    Hi Everyone,

    I just signed up for the omega forum so I could join in the discussion. I'm Alimamy and the watch posted with the faded dial and scratched crystal is mine. I also bought mine on impulse from an ebay dealer who claims it came from an estate sell. Hopefully this discussion will clear up the details about these dials.

    The watch is currently off with a watchmaker in the UK for servicing. Perhaps the watchmaker's comments will provide us with further insight.

    Cheers,
    Alimamy
     
  13. tomvox1 May 6, 2014

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    I buy the sunburst finish and I buy T SWISS MADE T. Here's where I have a potential problem:

    SMScientific-good-lines.jpg SMSpeedyCompanionhm-lines.jpg

    Now the placement of the printing could come down to chronology and/or dial batches. But there are other parts of the printing I also am not comfortable with having seen the real deals now (round date frame vs. square on the confirmed examples, the "S" in Seamaster, etc).
    YMMV & best,
    T.
     
  14. pitpro Likes the game. May 6, 2014

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    I would be suspicious of the Swiss Made being marker centered instead of dial centered
    also.
     
  15. PCLMS May 6, 2014

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    Ah I see what you're getting at. Just to play devil's advocate: on this page there are a few examples of the E more centred with the omega sign and the Swiss Made is marker centred as well.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Can I ask you where you found the original dial posted? It's the closest to my own that I've seen in the past couple of years.

    Oh, also, I've been meaning to change the strap on mine for a while now... any recommendations to what would look good?

    Cheers.
     
  16. tomvox1 May 6, 2014

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    Ebay sale listing.
    Looks like the purchaser of the watch posted above.
    Hopefully we'll get some more info. Trust me, I'd prefer it to be real. ;)
    Best,
    T.
     
  17. Alimamy May 8, 2014

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    Hi Everyone,

    Found another one! I don't know if we're allowed to post links to sells in the forum, but if you check e-bay there is a vintage seamaster up for sale with the same dial as OP. Though, this dial is quite faded and aged. Reference 166.002 (I think) with a calibre 562.

    [​IMG]

    Best,
    Alimamy
     
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  18. tomvox1 May 8, 2014

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    That does look a match to me and I seriously doubt anyone would bother to fake the age on that dial. The serial # is a bit hard to read but looks like 23 mil to me so ca. 1966.
    But I'd say, short of a letter from Bienne, this second watch pretty much confirms the authenticity of the original dial I posted.
    So congrats to the buyer because that one is in much better condition! :thumbsup:
    Well done, guys, & best regards,
    Tom
     
  19. Alimamy May 9, 2014

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    Hi All,

    I've got some better pictures of my dial to share. Also, I attempted to write Omega, but was directed to a website for requesting archive extracts. It looks like it would cost about $85 USD to get more information from Omega.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    (photos from Christian at watchguy.co.uk)

    Do you guys think I should do anything to the dial? Any cleaning options that would not alter it? Best ways to prevent further aging? The hands are also a bit old, too.

    As I'm looking forward to wearing this watch, I'm also all ears for any strap recommendations. :)

    Best,
    Alimamy