If my watch keeps time well, does that mean it doesn't need service?

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Unfortunately, some watchmakers do nothing to dispel this myth. Most of the watchmakers I have gone to in New York have even tried to talk me out of getting an overhaul if the watch is running "fine", despite being informed that it has been 6+ years since its last cleaning and oiling. Is this a matter of improper training? I don't want to name anyone specific (PM me if curious), but these guys are being used by the big auction houses in Manhattan. Then there are of course places like Central Watch in Grand Central that recommend an overhaul if there is a scratch on a lug (I don't mind naming them, having experienced first-hand and heard too many horror stories)

Interesting. I have run into this as well. Even in mentioning one of my watches was off by quite a bit - outside of what I would consider normal, I was told if it's not losing several minutes a day, don't bother.
 
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well, i have a slightly different option on that. lets say a watch has not been serviced for 5 years and is "totally dry" but keeping good time (-+10 sec a day // dial up, crown down). A service for a standard omega seamaster automatik (of the 50s, 60ties) my watchmaker charges arround 300 euro on average (including parts). The problem is that i aquire these for 250-300 euro and resell them for 400-500 Euro. So its quite unreasonable to service them, especially because the market (my customer) does not honor the service in comparison to the price paid.

The interesting thing is, that if a watch starts lacking time (-+30 seconds a day or worse) or even some wheel breaks inside the movement my watchmaker charges 50 Euros on average for the repair of the part. So for the price of a service i can take the very same watch six (!) times to the watchmaker - and i never needed to take a watch twice to him so far. (Traded arround 300 Omegas)

On the other hand, if you have a patek or a vacheron (HUGE issue regarding replacement parts) a cleaning-oiling-service (300 Euro without these parts) may be a sound investment. if something breaks the replacement costs will be much more expensive than at an omega and the serivcecost-watchvalue-ratio is a lot more reasonable.

What do you think?
So you only bring it to your watchmaker when movement parts are breaking from wear? He then replaces these and even then does not service the watch, and you do this in an effort to save some scratch? Do you then then tell the buyer that it is "freshly returned from the watchmaker?"
 
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Most people do not own timing machines, but if they wear their watches regularly they have a pretty good idea of how it runs in a 24 hour period. When it begins to deviate from this, then that is a good time to look into servicing. Regulation is meant to be used on a freshly serviced watch, not as a remedy for a watch that is no longer performing as it should.
 
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So you only bring it to your watchmaker when movement parts are breaking from wear? He then replaces these and even then does not service the watch, and you do this in an effort to save some scratch? Do you then then tell the buyer that it is "freshly returned from the watchmaker?"

Don't worry about ev3rclear. He got banned for being too awesome. And by awesome I mean that he was a moronic nuisance
 
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Funny when I hear running this and that many seconds a day. Don't think I have ever measured seconds a day ever that precise. As long as it's not that far off the time on a Quartz Tag I have had for years I never give it a thought. Same as when I set the time on a stopped movement if it's 7:12 I set the picked up watch to the same and never try to get seconds close at all. ( then it's days till I switch watches and if it looks about similar to the Quartz time all OK)

I do service when time is up mostly so never had any good or vintage watches with issues.

Beaters tend to get magnatized a fair bit though that gets picked up by being several minutes out..
 
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WIS time - 09:17:34

Northern Territory time - Arr, Sat'dy Night mate!
 
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Thanks Al an all for this thread ... im not of the, keeps time, keep wearing school and have read many threads on this subject and yet I still learned more than a few things reading this thread...

Im grateful for this forum.

Trev, Dennis et al, when will you accept donations to this forum?
I get the strong feeling that is is here as a result of largesse on the part of its creators.
Id be happy to chuck some coin you way... or donate a couple of my watchstraps as a giveaway for a fundraiser or whatever...
 
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Most people do not own timing machines, but if they wear their watches regularly they have a pretty good idea of how it runs in a 24 hour period. When it begins to deviate from this, then that is a good time to look into servicing. Regulation is meant to be used on a freshly serviced watch, not as a remedy for a watch that is no longer performing as it should.

I think you missed the point of my post...running well is not a reliable indicator that everything is fine inside...

Cheers, Al
 
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Don't worry about ev3rclear. He got banned for being too awesome. And by awesome I mean that he was a moronic nuisance

Banned several times no less!
 
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I think you missed the point of my post...running well is not a reliable indicator that everything is fine inside...

Cheers, Al
Oh no Mr. Archer, I totally understood your point. I was surprised actually how well the watch did on the timing machine. My point was not that a watch running well is not necessarily not in need of attention, but that when a deviation is observed this is a good indication that IT IS in need of service. It was more in relation to someone else's statement, I just can't now seem to remember which one.
 
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I was wondering why the back of my dads speedmaster had turned to goop.. i thought someone sprayed in some engine block sealant :S
 
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This happens to old case seals unfortunately but can be remedied by a competent watchmaker.
 
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This happens to old case seals unfortunately but can be remedied by a competent watchmaker.

Not a fun job...have to scrape out as much goop as you can, then alcohol (I use 99% at the bench) is the best solvent I have used to get rid of the remainder of the residue. Then hope there's no pitting under that mess!!
 
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The question in the title is one I see on watch forums often. The responses will be quite varied, but inevitably there will be someone from the “If it isn’t broken, then don’t fix it” camp chiming in. Now here at Omega Forums, this attitude is far less common than on a site like WUS, but I consider most posters here to be quite a bit more knowledgeable about watches in general than the WUS crowd is. But still I have seen the “it runs well so it must be okay” sort of statements posted here occasionally.

Now I’ll be up front here that if that is what you believe, and you want to continue that way of dealing with service on your watches for whatever reason, I am not trying to convince you to change anything you currently do. The purpose of this post is to dispel the myth that if the watch is keeping good time, then everything inside must be fine.

So I recently received this Speedmaster in. I’ll be up front in saying that I purchased this watch, and had no idea of service history or even how well it ran to be honest. Sorry for the blurry photo:



Since I had no idea what condition this was in, I decided to fully wind it and put it on the timing machine for checks in 6 positions, and here is the result:



Now keep in mind if you don’t have a timing machine and just simply wore this watch, all you would know is that it keeps damned good time. The average rate is +3.7 seconds per day, and the positional variation (Delta at the red arrow) is extremely good for this movement at just 5.4 seconds difference between all 6 positions. Note that for the Cal. 861 in this watch Omega allows the average daily rate to be from -1 to +11 seconds, and they allow up to 25 seconds of Delta measured over just 3 positions at full wind, so this is excellent.

Now what I see as a watchmaker is a beat error that is a bit larger then I would expect, and the balance amplitudes are not quite as high as I would like to see, but they are far from horrible. So to be honest although I was hoping it had been serviced fairly recently, that was certainly questionable at this point.

So the next step was to remove the case back, and it was on tight. One reason why is evident below - the case back gasket has started to turn to black goop as these often do after many years:



The movement overall looks to be in good condition though, so I place it under the microscope, and took photos of some specific areas. Now because this is a chronograph, it has a lot of parts mounted on top of the base movement, so it’s not easy to see all the jewels, but I can see a few. Here is one, and as you can see the well of the jewel around the pivot is completely dry...and I mean 100% bone dry:



On this one some of the old oil residue can be seen, but again completely dry:



And lastly, here is the balance jewel, and again it is 100% dry:



Now because balance jewels can be tricky to know what exactly you are looking at due to various features on the hole jewel that might look like rings of oil to the untrained eye, some time ago I took these photos of a jewel (also in a Cal. 861) before and after service to show what a properly oiled jewel looks like:



You can clearly see the ring of fresh oil between the hole and cap jewel.

So this watch has certainly not been serviced recently, and after looking at it more, I’m pretty convinced it’s never been serviced actually. No service marks inside the case back, and all the heads of the screws are nearly perfect. And slots that do show deformation from a screwdriver being in them are only deformed in the direction of tightening the screws, not loosening them.

Once again, I’m not trying to tell anyone to do anything differently then they are doing now. I just want to illustrate pretty well I think that timekeeping is actually a pretty poor indicator of the need for service.

I know this will not deter some true believers out there into repeating the false idea that if it runs okay it's fine inside, but for those who might be on the fence I hope this gives you some clarity.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Al
Not to be argumentative bur the main thing I see in the photos is that the side by side comparison of dry jewel and oiled jewel is that the one on the left labeled dry jewel is out of focus and the one labeled oiled jewel is in focus. How about a couple of comparisons with both photos in focus. I would be interested in seeing the actual difference.
 
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Not to be argumentative bur the main thing I see in the photos is that the side by side comparison of dry jewel and oiled jewel is that the one on the left labeled dry jewel is out of focus and the one labeled oiled jewel is in focus. How about a couple of comparisons with both photos in focus. I would be interested in seeing the actual difference.

They are both in focus - one is dry and the other has been oiled. You are seeing the actual difference.

Cheers, Al
 
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Once again, I’m not trying to tell anyone to do anything differently then they are doing now. I just want to illustrate pretty well I think that timekeeping is actually a pretty poor indicator of the need for service.

I know this will not deter some true believers out there into repeating the false idea that if it runs okay it's fine inside, but for those who might be on the fence I hope this gives you some clarity.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Al

Great post, very informative, thanks a lot!! 😀
 
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I know we are talking principally about mechanical watches, but does the discussion change any for quartz movements? I have a few Omega and Concord quartz watches that I want to hold onto. When the battery needs replacement, I send them for a factory battery replacement, or bring them to an OB. Can I rely of the service center to tell me when replacing the battery whether the watch needs a full service? Or should I put those Quartz watches on a maintainable schedule as well.
 
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I know we are talking principally about mechanical watches, but does the discussion change any for quartz movements? I have a few Omega and Concord quartz watches that I want to hold onto. When the battery needs replacement, I send them for a factory battery replacement, or bring them to an OB. Can I rely of the service center to tell me when replacing the battery whether the watch needs a full service? Or should I put those Quartz watches on a maintainable schedule as well.

Quartz watches are a different thing altogether. The forces on the wheels/pivots is quite small when compared to a mechanical watch, and the motor is only "on" about 8 ms for each pulse, so only a fraction of a second out of each second.

A battery change involves more than just pulling out an old battery and putting a new one in. Done properly, the movement will be checked for various electrical parameters, and a determination will be made based on the tests if a service is required.

I generally advise people to leave a quartz watch lone unless it shows a problem, like going through batteries too quickly.

More in depth quartz information here if you are interested:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/quartz-watches-some-information-some-may-find-interesting.5475/

Cheers, Al
 
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Thanks Archer,

All this shows that it's quite useful to have a timing machine (even cheap if you don't pratctice a lot). The Amplitude telle a lot about the state. When it falls under 250° it begins to be a red flag.
As a real geek, oiling the jewels became a pleasure, simply beacause it means that I reach the end of servincing 😉