so your opinion is appreciated. In the listing below the seller claims the 105.003 is in original condition....
Aside from the bezel not being original, I am trying to figure out what replacement dial he has on the watch. I can't really see from the pictures if it is even stepped?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OMEGA-Speed...374930789?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3cdb28ef65Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

 

Wow, I stopped at the price and the destination...

It does look like it is not a stepped dial. Can a 1957 Replica (actual unfortunate name for the Special Edition from late 90's) dial from the 1861 be mod'd to a 32-?

 

"black luminous 'Swiss Made' original dial"

 

you can fool some of the people all of the time
and you can fool all of the people some of the time
but you only need to fool one of the people one time.

 

Well, it is original, that is if you don't count the modern replacement dial (superluminova), the replaced bezel, the replaced hands, the replaced crown and the polished case. What do you expect to $10,000. An easy one to pass on.

 

Ah yes!

Terrapene carolina bauri

I learn something new every day, do they come with papers?

 

It's a factory service "Swiss Made" applied logo dial and a dot against 90 bezel. Hands original and not relumed, crown original, etc.
Price is according to Isnardi 2006-2007 catalog value.
One can compare with many other OmegaMania prices.
More so, bad shape + in need of a service sold for some $7k+, etc on the bay.

I find most of the comments rude.. but would be willing to hear any kind of thoughts from members who would understand the rarity of this piece and would look beyond "the price and the destination".

/F

 

The rarity of these pieces lie within the originality of the piece. Just because it is a factory replacement meaning "original" Omega item doesn't give it any sense of true origin. There are a lot of Speedmasters made but those which are very well taken care of is rare.

 

If you check the results with OmegaMania from 2006 - 2013 you would not find the prices inflated. You will see the price is rising by the demand.
Antiquorum, which i consider does not compare to Christie's and Sotheby's, has more inflated prices for their pieces and still sell.. Of course, you could say the last two houses are on a different level or auctioning the "creme de la creme"...

No matter i found a comment rude this doesn't stop anyone to express his thoughts.
If you go again through the comments, it won't be hard to understand what i mean.

I never imposed my opinion against others and i always want to point that collectors define themselves in many way.
However most of them speak about originality without really knowing what that means in the most conservative way. I am however... only expressing a thought in my complete honesty.

And even though this is sometimes disarming for the collectors that may have the intention to make a purchase, i always find the subject should be obsolete even for the most conservative or reluctant minds before really convincing one to go for it.

 

Never attribute to malice that which could also be explained by a skewed and/or subtle sense of humor.

 

Nice turnover. Well, i may have been too sensitive.

All ZEN now ..

 

The replacement parts should consist only in a bezel insert, and service dial.
Anyone sending the watch to Switzerland in the 70's, 80's, etc. would have received the same treatment...
This is what happened to this one in the process. During a service between all these years, the dial and bezel insert were replaced.
I would have went for a vintage dial of course, if i would have found one but originality wasn't at all altered here.
Although not admitting, many wish to find them in the best possible condition so the less work the better.
I personally prefer them as best and as clean as possible. I enjoy wearing new or vintage models with an immaculate aspect. I am always paying attention to such details...
If vintage and beat up, you would not expect to wear it to the gym.. it would automatically be one of your best investment and you would still wear with care but imagine the + of looking 10 time better. Either way, it's not the choice for heavy works, and almost anyone would handle it "with gloves"...

People seem to forget that out there, there are only 40800 pieces of various Omega models (Speedmasters & Seamasters) hosting the cal. 321.
So prices are now accordingly... and the trend applies for many other collectibles (not just watches).

 

The fact is that originality was altered here. Original, to most, would imply in the same condition as it left the factory. This watch was altered and although it has genuine Omega parts, these are not the parts it left the factory with. You can call it what ever you want, but in my opinion by claiming it is original you are misrepresenting the watch.

It is true that different collectors want different things and I am sure there are some who would prefer a watch that looks new. IMO, these people would typically opt for a modern speedy.

As far as pricing - you keep quoting Omegamania - which was the hight of the market. Try to look at the prices achieved in Antiquroum auctions since and you will see the difference. Moreover, there will be a price difference in what is achieved through a private auction house and eBAY. Your comparison should be eBAY and if you do that I think you will see the more realistic prices. At the end of the day you can price it at whatever you want, and we will keep on advising anyone who asks on what we believe the current market value is.

 

Just catching up on this mess.

First, Omegamania prices were inflated because Bienne was involved in the bidding, and "mania" was a good way to describe the event. I know of a gold Seamaster hooded lug bumper with a poor redial that sold to somebody many of us know for over $4000 at that auction and it wouldn't bring half that today. Further details are available but I won't make them public since it might cause some hard feelings.

BINGO! Original is only original with all the EXACT parts it left the factory with, except for wear items that are excusable like gaskets. The crystal and crown can be debatable as wear items maybe (although that does make a difference in value).

If you want a modern Speedmaster, then buy one. Don't try to tell a collector that it's "original" when parts have been substituted, be it by the factory or some frankenmaster. Geezus, a true original dial is 30 to 40% of the value of a vintage watch!

 

This is about to get very interesting...