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I bought a Genève with Cal. 565. Was it a mistake?

  1. Astiegan Nov 2, 2017

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    Hello everyone,

    Since a a bit less than a year, I've been thinking about buying my first Omega. By looking at the models and reading about them online, my choice went to a vintage Genève. I like items from the sixties / seventies (cars mostly) and thought it is a good age for a vintage watch because they have a design and a size that I appreciate. I wanted a Genève simply because I am from Geneva so as a first Omega it made sens. I had my eyes on the caliber 565 because I love the look of that generation of movements and it seems to be a very reliable one. Also, that range of similar models (Seamaster / Deville / Genève with 5XX calibers) were in my price range of < $500.

    So I waited and waited never finding the perfect one. Since I knew I would probably make a mistake anyway with my first buy, I decided to do it and I bought one a few weeks ago. The description was very poor but positive. It came from Spain.

    When a recieved it, I sadly had to admit that it was not as fully working as expected. The date change doesn't work and the watch loses almost one hour per day. weird sounds and bad behavior of the crown. I went to my watch guy that actually is the only one I know because I'm new in that world. He looked at it and ask me 300$ for a service.

    I could send it to the manufacture but I know that it's out of my budget and I've learned with vintage cars that going to the brand isn't always the right choice when it comes to +40 years old mechanical things.

    So before investing, I'd like to have opinions on that watch. Being sure that everything is original and knowing maybe a little more about it, if it has some particularities. Do you think it worth the 300$ service? Is it too expensive?

    It came with leather strap with omega buckle and box saying "Omega, Louis Brandt & Frère SA, Bern Suisse" (from what I can read)

    It has an annoying 17mm lug width. Case back says 162.009, Caliber 565 no 32953657.

    Thank you!
     
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  2. ChrisN Nov 2, 2017

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    Hi

    It looks like this watch. Don't worry about the extra zero. So, a cal 565 is fine. The movement looks fairly good and, I'd say that the dial and case are original. Some marks on the case and am not sure it's the right crown as it's difficult to know. It doesn't look a bad buy to me and should clean up nicely and be a reliable usable watch.

    It needs a service to correct the issues but that's normal with any watch of this age. Your watchmaker's quote of $300 is fine. Parts availability for this calibre is good so, all issues should be resolvable.

    So, what vintage cars do you like?;)

    Hope this helps, Chris
     
  3. Astiegan Nov 2, 2017

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    Thank you for your answer Chris!

    It reassures me. I know it's normal to service a vintage watch but I wanted to be sure that it's as much as possible all original before investing.

    About the vintage cars, I currently have a 1969 Volvo Amazon Coupé, a 1976 Toyota Celica Coupé and a fun little 1980 Toyota Tercel liftback :)

    I realised not long ago that there are many similarities between cars and watches (yes yes), but the watches don't need 12m2 of space and a full equiped garage for maintenance that's why I'm gently transionning toward watches :p I should have realised that earlier!
     
  4. ChrisN Nov 2, 2017

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    I like those Amazon's! I'm more into Jaguars so appreciate the space issue as well.

    Ialso found that as I got older working on my cars in a cold garage was not such a good thing. I still do some but bigger things are not for me now. In a similar way, I got into watches and Watchmaking because it keeps the Engineering interest up.:thumbsup:

    Let's see if anyone else has comments about your watch.

    Cheers, Chris
     
  5. Temprus Nov 2, 2017

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    Hi, Astiegan,
    I think that 169.002 case come with caliber 562 and shouldn't have "Geneve" on the dial.
    To me, it's look like this movement was taken from gold case and married with steel case.
    I think, it is not a good idea to pay $300 for repair, because with patience, you can found this watch in good working order in eBay for $400-$500, maybe less.
     
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  6. ChrisN Nov 2, 2017

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    I'm no expert on these but the link to the Omega site that I gave shows it should be a Genève and with a 565 (or 562). Do you think it is wrong? I'm not saying it isn't but am wondering how you came to this conclusion.

    Are you basing this on the possibly gold date window and other dial furniture? Perhaps the OP can say if these are gold coloured? Even then, you do sometimes see gold furniture with a steel case.

    Just out of interest, I sold this watch on OF a few months ago. It was €360 ($420) for the head only (I sold the with the BOR at €520) and I was completely swamped with mails. I could have sold it 20 times within one day. I think a serviced watch will not be as cheap as you think.

    Regards, Chris
     
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  7. AveConscientia Nov 2, 2017

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    The Tercel is the 4wd? Is the Amazon a 122s?
     
  8. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Nov 2, 2017

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    Why do you think these things?
     
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  9. Edward53 Nov 2, 2017

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    I think the OP's watch is correct and looks a nice example. The style of crown is correct for the movement date of c. 1970. @ChrisN's link to the Omega museum shows this case for a Geneve with either 562 or 565, and a quick Google for the ref. shows plenty of each type so I see no reason to doubt this. Losing an hour a day sounds more worrying than it perhaps is. I had a watch which did this, I got it serviced and now it keeps excellent time. I don't know why the date change isn't working and will leave that to the experts.
     
  10. Astiegan Nov 2, 2017

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    The Tercel is the first generation, it's a small liftback. The 4WD is the second generation. The Volvo is a 121 with the B20 engine. If you're in the US you only had the 122s I think but there were 121, 122S and 123GT in Europe.

    I don't want to go too far out of topic but it's also mechanical things from the past so here it is: :D
     
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  11. Astiegan Nov 2, 2017

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    Indeed the markers and date window are gold coloured. Even the date wheel is slightly gold. The dial is halfway between silver and gold. Do you think it can be due to age or is a possible original color?
     
  12. ChrisN Nov 2, 2017

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    There are Omegas with gold furniture in a steel case - here's an example. I see no reason why yours would not be original. Nobody know every combination but, you can look through some brochures at Old Omegas.

    There are different possibilities with the movement issues but, there is no reason that a full service won't sort everything. I'm not sure where you are but, there are many members on here and probably someone local to you who can recommend a watchmaker. It would be best to get someone who is used to these but, they are not difficult to work on - the worst part is the auto mechanism in my opinion. Somewhere, there is a map with all our locations (or many of them) against username - have no idea where it is even though I only filled it out recently::facepalm1::. Find someone local and send a PM if you want to get a recommendation.

    Great photo of the Amazon 121 with the birds taking off:thumbsup:

    Cheers, Chris
     
  13. ChrisN Nov 2, 2017

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  14. Temprus Nov 2, 2017

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    This conclusion based only in my experience. I'm not an expert, I had hundreds watches of this model at my workshop. I could be wrong. But In my country the steel case usually come with caliber 562, gold with caliber 565. The dial on the steel case does not have "Geneve" on it. Gold plated wach appear on sale 10 years late. They was like a Premium watch due to the gold color and the dial has written "Geneve"on it.
     
  15. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Nov 2, 2017

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    The 162.009 (1620009) did come with a Geneve dial, and also with either a 562 or 565. The case was available in many different materials...and both steel and gold used the 562 and 565.

    The 565 seems to be more common in the "SP" version of the case.

    Case materials include 18k 2N yellow gold, 18k 3N yellow gold, 18k white gold, 14k 1N pale yellow gold, 2N yellow gold plate, 4N (pink gold) plate, and stainless steel.

    Cheers, Al
     
  16. ChrisN Nov 2, 2017

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    OK, so it seems there are possibilities as noted by Al and Omega but you haven't noticed them - if you have a lot of watches coming through it would be difficult anyway.

    No comment on this statement? - "this watch in good working order in eBay for $400-$500, maybe less". Looking at your avatar and from what you've said above, I suppose you are a watchmaker but, for (let's say) twice the price of a service, you think you can easily buy a serviced one of these? Even if you have no experience?

    It seems to me that sometimes we make throw away statements that don't help the OP or give them unrealistic expectations and I'm probably as guilty as everyone else. I always think this is a welcoming place but read this comment on another forum the other day and it seems not everyone agrees:
    "Occasionally I venture on to the Omega forums but I never bother to get involved, I just wouldn't fit in. Too many pseudo-experts who actually know f-all for my liking, and too much elitism."

    Regards, Chris
     
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  17. AveConscientia Nov 2, 2017

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    There is a lot car people on this forum and with it a lot of threads relating to cars. Amazing cars funny those cars are all some of my favorite economy cars.
     
  18. Astiegan Nov 6, 2017

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    I'm in... hmmm... Geneva :unsure:

    I guess I should be able to find someone who knows a little bit about watches :D

    Thank you!

    Thanks for your input! What does SP stand for?

    I understand that. I think it's the case everywhere. We can't change the forums population so we just have to be carefull and aware that there are just normal people behind the avatars and they may be wrong like everyone.
    I think forums like this one can be an incredible source of knowledge and I'm very glad internet allows people of same interests to share their knowledge easily with the world. So with a minimum of precaution, it's still better than nothing!

    So I'm not alone. Good!
     
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