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How to date an Omega timer by serial numbers... and any Lemania movement

  1. uwsearch

    uwsearch Aug 26, 2016

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    I'm collecting Omega and Lemania timers for years and realized that there is almost no info like Omega Serial Numbers by Year for Lemania numbered movements found usually in Omega timers.

    20160826_123813.jpg

    Heres a graph with the infos I got from Military dated timers (probably +-3 years accuracy)

    lemania serial numbers.JPG


    I hope it helps...
    and by the way, I would appreciate any additional year/serial number infos, thanks
     
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  2. tapaptpat

    tapaptpat Aug 26, 2016

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    Wow... hall of fame wall.. All hail @uwsearch
    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:::love::::shy::::love:::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
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  3. wsfarrell

    wsfarrell Aug 26, 2016

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    Cool wall o' watches, and nice curve-fitting too.
     
  4. tdn-dk

    tdn-dk Aug 27, 2016

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    Great info, i have a few of those Lemania powered Omega timers and have struggled to find info on the build year of them.

    IMG_0849.JPG IMG_0871.JPG
     
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  5. tdn-dk

    tdn-dk Aug 27, 2016

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    Here are the serials from mine, the dates i have used is from AJTT where the introduction date is. So 1966- is introduction date 1966

    Stopure.JPG
     
  6. tapaptpat

    tapaptpat Aug 27, 2016

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    What happens when you overlay your non military data?

    I just did check my incoming 40s non-mil wristwatch and it fits to mid range 228xxx.

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  7. tdn-dk

    tdn-dk Aug 27, 2016

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    I think they are not off. I have papers on some of them but it is the selling date from the dealer and not the production/shipping date from Omega. They can have been laying at the dealer for years before selling.

    This 3240936 serial have dated papers from 11/8 1976 but dates 1973 i the chart. But maybee it has been in stock for years at the dealer, who knows ?

    7.jpg
     
  8. tapaptpat

    tapaptpat Aug 27, 2016

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    Your are lucky to have such solid imperical data like försäkringsbevis or a kvitto that is dated! Very nice.

    Let me just say another thing before i continue. I have no Lemania powered stopwatches. I used the serial from a wristwatch. Just for fun. Since there is so precious little data on our cherished Lemanias.

    My question to @uwsearch could be more clear.

    What happens when you overlay data from; non-military, documented with papers or caseback engraved stopwatch data, yours included. How well does the model fit?



    Another point of note. Although using military pieces that are dated, this has its own problems. Similar to your documented stopwatch. The watchmakers could swap case and movement, this would be done out of necessity, by accident. So we might see data points with a large date discrepancy. But I think you'll agree it is the best data we have available.

    Regards
    Pat




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  9. uwsearch

    uwsearch Aug 28, 2016

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    Military seems the most accurate way to date these timers.. some problems you mention might happen, but it's the better way in my opinion.
    When I compare the few documented with papers I have to the graph, some were sold up to 15 years later, but I have one that is spot on..


    Not a problem as serial number is only on the movement

    A few black "nuit spatiale":

    20160828_082117.jpg
     
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  10. tapaptpat

    tapaptpat Aug 28, 2016

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    One thing I forgot to ask yesterday. Are you seeing a trend for batches. The mod would order 100, 200, 400 etc of a particular type. Lets say patt4.. 1965 or am 1957 6b/Xxx
    If you had duplicates like the "few black nuit spatiale" are you seeing sequential serials or they appear to be random?

    I know we covered "it was sat in the shop for 3 years". This is true for Mil storeroom too.

    And had another thought. Coffee starting to work.

    As you have alot of data without a tangible date. Can it still be useful. I thinks so. Here is my early bird thought. Keep the wonderful chart you already have. Build a new chart with x-axis the same. Serial. But build Y-axis as number fitting in range. EG i'd expect to see spikes the columns every 2 years prior to winter and summer Olympics. Just fun nerdy thought. This is similar to the stock price vs volume traded graph pair you'll see in the markets.

    Thanks for sharing keep 'em coming.

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  11. uwsearch

    uwsearch Aug 28, 2016

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    I have very few duplicate as there are so many models (And I'm trying to refrain from buying duplicates). And each model was produced for 5, 10 or 20 years maybe, so it would be very unlikely to have enough samples to find sequences.

    There won't be any peak before the Olympics as timers used by Omega for timing competitions have Omega movements.. not Lemania
     
  12. tapaptpat

    tapaptpat Aug 28, 2016

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    Wow ok did not know that.
    I thought Omega acquired Lemania based on their strong chronograph. But I could be wrong on this. Maybe I'm thinking wristwatches again..

    I still think the data comparison would be fun anyway. Just not sure what to expect other than see increased production over time.

    Thanks again
    Pat

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  13. uwsearch

    uwsearch Aug 28, 2016

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    Here is the graph you're asking: number of stopwatches I own per year, and I added the number of Lemania movement produced per year (estimated)

    Do you think there is any connection to Olympics? I don't think so..

    Capture.JPG
     
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  14. tapaptpat

    tapaptpat Aug 28, 2016

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    Ok looks great. There is an emidiate visual help for your collection. Spotting date gaps. 1956 as an example.

    I am surprised at this, as there is a theory regarding 1956 floating around on Mil forums. You might have seen it. It has to do with A.M. taking a post war stock of all wristwatches(I assume stopwatches too). I have a JLC 6b/159 am. This is likely to be reclassification. You will see Longines Omega etc all in same type of case.

    Re Olympics I will bow to your knowledge. Please treatment as a small child or Labrador. I know nothing. Noobies here. [emoji12] [emoji10] [emoji56].

    Pat

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  15. OMTOM

    OMTOM Aug 28, 2016

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    My contribution is small. I haven’t studied these – but nonetheless it’s of interest to me. I have only one stopwatch/timer, all the rest are chronographs. I think some of the Omega watches had movements produced by Lemania (marked Omega) which adds to the confusion.

    I offer the following only to add to the data, hope it helps.

    My one timer (I think ref MG6603) has number 1,855,***
    I have two Ref 201, with numbers 12,780,*** and 13,648,***
    I have two Ref 206, both with numbers 1,282,***
    I have four Ref 1131 with numbers as follows: 2,201,***, 2,201,***, 2,324,***, 2,852,***

    All of the above are marked Omega on both dial and movement (some dials show Omega ‘Olympic’).

    Tom's Olympics.jpg
    So the numbering systems for the different references differ: the 201s may be Omega numbers but 206s and 1131s may be Lemania numbers

    The Ref. 206 (at least) was a ‘fine’ movement, used also in observatory competitions, with Guillaume balance. There are ‘Bulletin de marche’ from the Neuchatel observatory for my two 206s (1964 and 1966) and one of my 201s (1952) – but still no idea of the dates of origin of the movements which of course may have been produced years earlier.

    An interesting thread from March 2013 by MSNWatch who wrote “IMO one of the most beautiful movements omega ever made” – I agree with him!
    https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...ost-beautiful-movements-omega-ever-made.4375/
    In this post, MSNWatch shows his Ref. 206 – again a number 1,282,***

    I wish I could offer more. Tom
     
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  16. tapaptpat

    tapaptpat Aug 28, 2016

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    @tdn-dk

    Forgot to ask the other day. What does AJTT mean?

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  17. tdn-dk

    tdn-dk Aug 28, 2016

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    Omega's big book, has a lot of the timers

    ajtt.JPG
     
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  18. tapaptpat

    tapaptpat Aug 28, 2016

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    Ahhh. Ok there was for sale at on the last fellows auction.

    Would you say it's the best all rounder?
    Is it good for lemania?

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  19. uwsearch

    uwsearch Aug 28, 2016

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    Great collection, I don't have any of these!!!
    All yours follow Lemania numbering, but ref 201 that are "true" Omega. I do have 2 pieces with similar 12'78X'XXX serial and caliber 180 and 190 that are from 1952 too.. What happened that specific year with Omega numbering instead of Lemania ? funny!
    About your "206, both with numbers 1,282,***", they were probably produced in 61/62, but it took some years to get the "bulletin de marche"
    Thanks for your input !
     
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  20. fredouille78

    fredouille78 Aug 31, 2016

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    That's a GREAT post. I was looking for years to get such informations. Thanks a lot ! :):thumbsup:
     
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