How to Create a Unique and Successful Minimalist Watch Brand

Archer · Mar 25, 2017

Larry S
Cool what about rumors of Chinese component sourcing?

I base what I know on evidence, not rumours. I understand that facts and evidence are out of fashion these days, but I am always willing to listen to any well reasoned arguments, so present the evidence, and we'll go from there.

As an aside, if something like the case is made in China, I personally have no issues with that provided the quality is there. There is evidence (quite different from rumours) that Omega makes at least some bracelet parts in China. Again as long as the quality is there, the country of origin of parts like these is no concern to me.

This is quite a different thing to what is being satirized in that post, and are no way comparable...that was my point.

Larry S
How is Nomos able to meet the price point they are at with in house or local production?

If you believe that the majority of the final price of these products comes from production costs, then you do not understand this business at all.

Cheers, Al

Larry S · Mar 25, 2017

OK ...no offense intended. BTW ....I've been in business a long time so I do understand how pricing works.

adi4 · Mar 25, 2017

Archer
If you believe that the majority of the final price of these products comes from production costs, then you do not understand this business at all.

And the thing about Nomos is, it's not like they're pricing their watches at the sub-$1k price point or anything. They are (I'm assuming) making a healthy profit on moderately priced watches, even on the recent budget Campus line they released. It's not like they're doing anything super complex with their cases or anything like that. Their watches look great, but I don't see why anyone would be surprised at them being able to price their watches the way they do.

tyrantlizardrex · Mar 25, 2017

adi4
And the thing about Nomos is, it's not like they're pricing their watches at the sub-$1k price point or anything. They are (I'm assuming) making a healthy profit on moderately priced watches, even on the recent budget Campus line they released. It's not like they're doing anything super complex with their cases or anything like that. Their watches look great, but I don't see why anyone would be surprised at them being able to price their watches the way they do.

Nomos seem to have a very different model to the large players in the industry.

They sell direct, through their website, and a relatively small dealer network, the prices seem very stable (getting discounts doesn't seem to be an option), and the products are watch first... everything else second.

The Club Campus is the only thing I've seen come out of Basel this year, and though "Wow, I want that watch".

Archer · Mar 25, 2017

tyrantlizardrex
Nomos seem to have a very different model to the large players in the industry.

Yes certainly different from the major players. I don't know what specific rumours were being referred to by Larry S, but putting on my WUS cap for a moment, I can imagine how a conversation about Nomos pricing would happen there. Someone asks how Nomos can do what they do at such low prices, several people jump in with theories that the relatively low prices must mean that they are cutting corners somewhere (parts from China being the go to conclusion), and are therefore inferior and less desired because of that.

Somewhere Thorstein Veblen is smiling...

Having been in this business for a while now, I understand the potential downsides of having your product too reasonably priced. "How can they be any good if they are that cheap. eh?"

Cheers, Al

Foo2rama · Mar 25, 2017

People think Nomos is too low cost... looks at Junghans... no one questions them.

b-16707 · Mar 25, 2017

wait, i probably missed this but why the hate on nomos?

tyrantlizardrex · Mar 25, 2017

Foo2rama
People think Nomos is too low cost...

I find that really weird... other than the Club/Campus the watches are all £2k plus... that seems like an "expensive" watch... people are weird. 🤨

BenjaminT · Mar 25, 2017

2 points I would like to add to the Nomos discussion:
1. Nomos does in house movements but has very few of them. They are putting a high effort in the industrialization of movement production and assembly. They can be more compared with Rolex in this regards than with the typical "manufactures". Here is a good read: http://quillandpad.com/2015/10/09/h...tch-with-manufacture-movement-for-under-3000/
2. Nomos and all Glashütte companies do not have a sweat shops but are located in a sort of underdeveloped area near the Czech border of Germany. They are known for paying relatively low wages (let's say 1/2 and less than a swiss watchmaker would get).

Benjamin who bought his first and till now only Nomos in 2004 for 600€. Zurich Worldtime is growing on me though.

Foo2rama · Mar 25, 2017

tyrantlizardrex
I find that really weird... other than the Club/Campus the watches are all £2k plus... that seems like an "expensive" watch... people are weird. 🤨

The assumption is the low cost is due to substandard Chinese parts. Junghans are even lower cost and afaik no one doubts their quality.

Archer · Mar 25, 2017

BenjaminT
2. Nomos and all Glashütte companies do not have a sweat shops but are located in a sort of underdeveloped area near the Czech border of Germany. They are known for paying relatively low wages (let's say 1/2 and less than a swiss watchmaker would get).

I can't speak to what the people at Nomos might make, and it would not surprise me that at a smaller company people are making less. Nomos is a fairly small player there compared to some of the other big brands, both in name and horological prowess.

But I don't think I would call the Glashütte area underdeveloped personally. It's about a 40 minute train ride from Dresden, and yes this is former East Germany, but the town itself is quite beautiful. I've been to some areas of Switzerland that are known for watchmaking (Vallée de Joux, Plan-les-Ouates part of Geneva, Fleurier, etc.), but Glashütte is probably the most densely populated location I've ever been to in terms of watch brands and supporting industry...

The area also has a rich horological history, dating back over 160 years. If anyone ever has a chance to visit this place, I highly recommend it.

Cheers, Al

styggpyggeno1 · Mar 25, 2017

Comparing Nomos with all the kickstarter brands is like comparing apples and oranges.

adi4 · Mar 25, 2017

Archer
Having been in this business for a while now, I understand the potential downsides of having your product too reasonably priced. "How can they be any good if they are that cheap. eh?"

My opinion is this is what is driving Seiko to ramp up prices across the board. Very curious to see how that strategy plays out for them. On either side they'll get questions and criticism though, first it was "Why is this Grand Seiko priced so low?" and now it's "That GS diver costs how much?!".

Personally, I wish they'd go back to the previous price bracket, but I understand why they would move upmarket to redefine their image to drive more sales. I'm perfectly content collecting vintage Grand Seiko. 👍

Larry S · Mar 25, 2017

Archer
Yes certainly different from the major players. I don't know what specific rumours were being referred to by Larry S, but putting on my WUS cap for a moment, I can imagine how a conversation about Nomos pricing would happen there. Someone asks how Nomos can do what they do at such low prices, several people jump in with theories that the relatively low prices must mean that they are cutting corners somewhere (parts from China being the go to conclusion), and are therefore inferior and less desired because of that.

Somewhere Thorstein Veblen is smiling...

Having been in this business for a while now, I understand the potential downsides of having your product too reasonably priced. "How can they be any good if they are that cheap. eh?"

Cheers, Al

WUS yes possibly HODINKEE as well as I recall. Context: high hurdle applied to Made in USA vs hypocracy of loose standards :Swiss Made and Made In Germany.

Jking · Mar 25, 2017

Hilarious... "Your watch next to other expensive items that have nothing to do with your watch"...the image in every Facebook sponsored ad that shows up on my newsfeed. 🙄

Archer · Mar 25, 2017

Larry S
WUS yes possibly HODINKEE as well as I recall. Context: high hurdle applied to Made in USA vs hypocracy of loose standards :Swiss Made and Made In Germany.

If you consider that evidence, that's up to you. I don't personally, because I can find other publications that directly contradict this idea, such as the Quill & Pad article above by Elizabeth Doerr:

"And let me also be very, very clear about the origin of Nomos Glashütte’s components: they are either made on premises, sourced in Germany, or sourced in Switzerland (such as the case and hands)."

So do I believe some random people on WUS? The Dinks (if they actually said what you say they did)? Or a "respected horoligcal journalist" writing for a fairly major magazine? I know the one I lean to, but probably none of the above in reality if I had to bet money on it.

When I say evidence, I don't mean something written on a forum or an internet blog, but more something like this:

As for the hypocrisy of various country of origin standards, this is why being an educated consumer is important, rather than relying on rumours. Once you understand the facts, you can make an educated decision about purchasing something or not. I've certainly made mine with regards to Nomos, as did my wife:

Cheers, Al

BenjaminT · Mar 25, 2017

Archer
But I don't think I would call the Glashütte area underdeveloped personally. It's about a 40 minute train ride from Dresden, and yes this is former East Germany, but the town itself is quite beautiful. I've been to some areas of Switzerland that are known for watchmaking (Vallée de Joux, Plan-les-Ouates part of Geneva, Fleurier, etc.), but Glashütte is probably the most densely populated location I've ever been to in terms of watch brands and supporting industry...

Well, this area has suffered badly economically when the iron curtain fell. Watch industry was present there under communist rule as well, but major economic factor was mining and the processing industry attached. And this has vanished more or less instantly.
So yes, it is the watchmaking capital of germany but the area it is located in still has not fully recovered and wages are still significantly cheaper than in other parts of the country, leave alone switzerland.

Archer
The area also has a rich horological history, dating back over 160 years. If anyone ever has a chance to visit this place, I highly recommend it.

Definetly 👍

tyrantlizardrex · Mar 25, 2017

I think Glasshütte is something like an area of designated development... where companies get tax breaks to bring jobs there.

Given the rich history of watch production in the area, it's pretty cool to see these manufactures investing in the town and the people, and setting up shop for the long term.

If I can find myself a new paying gig, a Nomos Club Campus is on the list for 2017.

Archer · Mar 25, 2017

BenjaminT
Well, this area has suffered badly economically when the iron curtain fell. Watch industry was present there under communist rule as well, but major economic factor was mining and the processing industry attached. And this has vanished more or less instantly.

I'm sure they had their hardships during the cold war era and after. I've worked on some GUB watches, which are nearly impossible to find parts for:

The movements are very industrial to say the least, and make the cheap 1000 and 1010 series Omegas made during the quartz crisis looks like Pateks:

If you look at this through the lens of wages, I'm sure you are correct about the area. I tend to look at this through the eyes of a watchmaker, and in that regard I can't possibly say they are underdeveloped - in my view some of these German makers rival anything made in Switzerland and beyond.

For those familiar with Philippe Dufour, he and some other prominent watchmakers were asked to recommend a watch under $10k - this was Mr. Dufour's response:

Philippe Dufour: "I would say that you could buy at this price, maybe a bit less, a very good watch in terms of value and quality. It’s not Swiss - sorry - [but] a German brand called NOMOS. I found that this brand makes a very serious product. I like these watches, and for somebody who wants to start, I think this will be a good [choice]: not too expensive and good value for money."

I'll take his opinions over some people at WUS pretty much any day. 😉

And Nomos is not the only brand he likes from Glashütte - I took this photo of him after a dinner we both attended where he was signing some books - hard to see but the watch he is wearing is a ALS Datograph in rose gold:

This is his other personal watch on my wrist...a Simplicity of course:

If the man who makes that watch owns a Datograph and recommends Nomos, I think the area is doing pretty well from a watchmaking standpoint.

Cheers, Al

How to Create a Unique and Successful Minimalist Watch Brand

Archer

Larry S

adi4

tyrantlizardrex

Archer

Foo2rama

b-16707

tyrantlizardrex

BenjaminT

Foo2rama

Archer

styggpyggeno1

adi4

Larry S

Jking

Archer

BenjaminT

tyrantlizardrex

Archer

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