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  1. ar2151 Jul 31, 2018

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    Hello, thinking of purchasing this watch. Told it is all original, wondering your thoughts?
     
    6557-0.jpg 6557-3.jpg 6557-1.jpg
  2. Jantar Jul 31, 2018

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    Better pics? Some of the case back and movement would help. I’m kinda new at this but the chrono seconds hand doesn’t seem to match the hour and minute.
     
  3. Dan S Jul 31, 2018

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    The chrono (sweep) hand is fine, but the pushers look like service pushers for a 105.012 (experts, please correct me if I'm wrong). If so, and the watch is really a 145.012-67, then it has obviously been tampered with, so it becomes extremely important to see photos of the back, the inside of the case-back, and the movement, including the serial number.
     
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  4. boogedyboo Jul 31, 2018

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    Stepped dial with long indices and AML, check.
    DON bezel, check.
    Tear drop chrono hand, check.

    Not sure about that bracelet though.

    Yes, you would need photos of the caseback and movement to be absolutely sure.
     
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  5. Marty McDawg Jul 31, 2018

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    Agreed the stems look a little too narrow to be original.
     
  6. Dan S Jul 31, 2018

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    It's going to be a lot of speculation until we see the inside.
     
    Edited Jul 31, 2018
  7. ar2151 Jul 31, 2018

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  8. bjhove Aug 1, 2018

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    The chrono hand lume is more yellowish and does not match the lume on minute/hour hands, nor the indices. I would say its relumed or a newer service part. Hard to see based on the pictures, but the edges on the lugs (especially in the right side) looks rounded off. I think it has been polished too.
     
  9. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Aug 1, 2018

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    They don’t always match. The chrono hand is the hand closest to the crystal, so is more affected by temperature variance / condensation etc.

    All the hands look suspicious to me (*) -> judging by the globular nature of the paint on the inner rectangles/diamond of the lume inserts...from factory these are always sharp lines with sharp corners, but not so here...usually signs of a repaint...which can’t be done with original lume intact.

    Edit : definitely seen a light polish, but we have seen much worse. Agree with the pushers. Need inner pics.

    (*) : using some photos to illustrate why the hands can not have original lume, and are repainted. OP watch on the left, different watch (with untouched hands) on the right. Look carefully at the lume inlays highlighted in the same-coloured boxes, which despite pixellation, are clear to see. Also worth noting the lines around the lume inlays -> paint thickness varies on the OP watch ... these are normally straight and perfect lines, evenly thick paint.

    Untitled.png
     
    Edited Aug 1, 2018
  10. bjhove Aug 1, 2018

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    Agree, and you might be right - though I still find it suspicious, that the lume on the chrono hand looks so fresh and not patinated at all compared with the indices where some are heavily patinated with algea, and must have been in contact with moisture.
     
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  11. ConElPueblo Aug 1, 2018

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    I'd be wary of stating that 1mm or so of difference in closeness to the crystal does any sort of difference... Rather speculative, no? Lume mixture, how heavy it has been applied and difference in age seems more reasonable causes, IMO.
     
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  12. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Aug 1, 2018

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    Sure, it’s all just a theory based on moisture turning lume mouldy/black, and an observation that the hand furthest away from the dial (hence nearest the crystal) does so before the hand below it, and so on, as well as in the hands whose lume extend almost to the center of the dial, the 'blackness' moves from the center (where its connected to the movement) outward...

    Or at least this is one of the things seen on old speedies with factory original hands, whose lume age is the same and application uniform (unlike the watch in the OP) ... but not all speedies exhibit this behaviour ...

    Naturally watches whose hands and dials are relumed by different factories (i.e. UV test shows clear difference in glow, as well as day-light inspection shows clear difference in color (modern Oris is an example i can think of)) may not necessarily work exactly this way, but the context here is Speedies...

    And then moisture also depends on climate etc etc etc. I'll stick by this theory, it serves well.

    Edit : FWIW, vintage Seiko exhibits similar behavior.
     
    Edited Aug 1, 2018
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  13. Davidt Aug 1, 2018

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    Looking at the degredation and colouration of the lume, I'd say that the lume on the hands and dial is original. Its not hugely attractive though.

    The bracelet is clearly wrong and the case has been completely repolished.

    Typical dealer watch which I would think looked quite different a year ago. That's not to say it may not be largely original or a reasonable buy. It's just been tarted up.

    You need serial and reference numbers to proceed though.
     
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  14. MaiLollo Aug 1, 2018

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    I don't think that reluming the hands on a speedmaster should detract from the value, especially if the job is done correctly & previously the lume was unattractive. They are items designed to be replaced during service, after all...

    In full disclosure, I've done so myself on one of my watches, and I enjoy it much more now.
     
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  15. mr_yossarian Aug 1, 2018

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    I can only repeat myself: if the hands are correct, I wouldn't bother with the lume unless it's redone bad or SL. If the watch is (was in this case) good and attractive, that wouldn't stop me or make me lowball a fair asking price.
     
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  16. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Aug 1, 2018

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    Not sure how anything you are saying relates to anything I have said or why you feel the need to quote me => OP is told this watch is 'all original'. Its clearly not ... we are 'disclosing' the things the seller will not disclose to him -> the intended bottom line.

    But I do agree, and I too shall soon be reluming a hand (but not repainting it!).

    Regardless of the lume, that paint-job on OP hands would stop me dead. But as collectors with different standards we all are different. Ain't that beautiful...
     
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  17. ar2151 Aug 1, 2018

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    Thank you all for the help, I've decided not to purchase this watch. I'm looking at a different watch instead.
     
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  18. MaiLollo Aug 1, 2018

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    I quoted you because you're going Sherlock Holmes on the guy, and I feel that the hands are not the main concern (a relume wouldn't be such a problem to most collectors), maybe getting info on the movement would be more important.
    Of course, it should be disclosed.
    Also, we're in August, it's vacation time, you shouldn't be so stressed out ::bleh::
     
  19. wsfarrell Aug 1, 2018

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    Anybody know what bracelet that is?
     
  20. gdupree Aug 1, 2018

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    I enjoyed the analysis @eugeneandresson... Not for everyone, and it's just a theory, but I have always been curious about why speedmaster hands blacken as they so often do, and why they do it in such an odd way.
     
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