As @Spacefruit says, modern Panerias are considered a little closer to being a fashion item in some markets, than a high quality timepiece.

Buying modern watches is a hard game to play... You have to filter out all the marketing, celebrity endorsements, and flashy boutiques, before getting to the main point... Are the watches worth what is being asked for.

Happy hunting.

 

Panerai has now an in-house movement. I am very not interested in modern watch but i am considering an in-house movement (if they really are!)
May be the right solution is buying a second-hand watch or on the grey market to avoid paying the marketing etc.

 

The question being if their in house are as good and reliable as the ETA versions. Not all in house are created equal, and ETA movements are not bad at all.

 

Of course you are totally right, that is not my point. Most of high grade ETA are very reliable. I was more talking about the price legitimatacy regarding the watch (except marketing etc.) => to me a good in-house movement add more interest

 

And a restriction on who can fix it...

 

Yes good point!

 

I can't help but think you are unduly influenced here by some negative perception of the brand that is common in some circles. Can I please have your definition of what makes a particular brand a "fashion brand"? Is it lack of watchmaking chops? If so, you should really look at the brand again. Yes, they have not always been about the movements, but that doesn't mean they have not made their share of great watches with great movements, as well as quite complicated watches.

Yes, they are a resurrected brand, like Blancpain - do you consider BP to be a fashion brand too? What about Lange - they are a resurrected brand?

Being part of that "behemoth" has afforded Panerai the luxury of getting some great movements, like the 8-day JLC movement in the 190. A very sought after watch actually.

Do you judge the vintage Rolex collector market based on the slimy used car salesman wearing a TT datejust, who has no idea of watches, and just bought it because "Rolex is the best!"?

Yes there certainly are, and not just the vintage watches. Of course it depends on your definition of investment, but based on what you have written here, Omega is no more of a "investment brand" whatever that actually means, than Panerai is. There are really only a few Omega models that are true investment models when you look at the brand as a whole, and the same could be said for Rolex. I don't know of anyone "investing" in TT ladies datejusts...

If it requires the entire catalogue over the entire history of the company to always increase is value to meet your criteria, then that is a VERY short, if non existent, list of brands.

Non-sequitur? Sorry I don't see the relevance here.

In any case, certainly any of the true vintage pieces are highly collectible, and I would say are investment grade pieces. They do require deep pockets though, so this is by nature a limited market, but that doesn't mean it's not an investment. Not a lot of people collect van Gogh, but I don't think anyone would call his paintings not worthy of investment status.

For the modern watches, they are less of a "sure thing" than they once were certainly, and not all models will increase in value, as with almost all brands. But to write them all off would be a big mistake. In the modern era, the Pre-V watches are limited in numbers, and certainly capable of being investment pieces. Vendome models less so, but even then some pieces are still appreciating, and if you are lucky enough to get in on some of the LE's like the 360, that is certainly worthy of the investment category.

I am still kicking myself for being a "movement snob" say 12 or so years ago, and not taking a buddy of mine up on his offer to sell me his 210, at what now would be a price so close to stealing it...why would I want this watch with a simple, cheap, reliable, and easily serviced ETA 6497 movement? Yes...why indeed. My own ignorance and snobbery got in the way of a fantastic deal.

You might not think much of the brand, and that's okay - you are entitled to your opinion certainly. But having been around various collector groups that were focused on different brands over the years, I can say one thing with certainty - you will never come across a more dedicated and passionate group of brand fanatics than the hard core Panerai guys.

Cheers, Al

 

And.... They're cool. Here's mine as I get my latest sold pic ready to ship