Help Needed On Speedmaster Professional 105.012 65 HF Case

[qbert1964]

Hi.
I've been interested in watches for around 20 years and have collected, bought and sold a lot including hundreds of Omegas. I therefore class myself as someone with a fair amount of knowledge but I struggle when it comes to Speedmasters. Partly because I haven't had more than a couple, but also because of the amount of variations. So I would really appreciate your views on one I acquired a while back.

It is a Speedmaster Professional 105.012 65 with HF case. The condition is stunning with very little wear and a movement which is running very well. From what I understand the watch has spent most of the past 50 years in a safe. The shaped lugs and case with stepped back are fantastic and there is minimal wear to the DoN bezel. The 321 movement is also within a thousand of Armstrong's watch

I've had a really good luck at it and compared it to details online (images, serial number tables etc) including Armstrong's watch and also showed it to a friend. They reckon the hands are likely to be service hands, also the watch is on a 1116 bracelet with 575 end links which I think is slightly newer than the watch.

It would be great to have your views on the watch in terms of condtion, aspects originality etc. Also I as I am likely to be selling the watch what is likely to be a fair price..

Lots of pictures below..

Cheers
Qbert

 

[ndgal]

That dial... 👎

 

[Passover]

Pushers are not original, crown could be changed too

Edited: Sep 28, 2021

 

[Dash1]

Hands, pushers, crown and bracelet not original. Case back looks like it might have been polished which would make me think the case has been also. If it's been in a safe for 50 years it had a hard few years before that. It's a great reference though.

 

[qbert1964]

Dash1

Hands, pushers, crown and bracelet not original. Case back looks like it might have been polished which would make me think the case has been also. If it's been in a safe for 50 years it had a hard few years before that. It's a great reference though.

Thanks for the reply and sorry for not responding sooner. I was doing more research myself to work out how to tell the pushers and crown are service ones. So if I've got this right, the original pushers would have had wider tubes and the original crown would have had a chamfered underside?

At least the parts including the hands seem to be old but original service parts. If I've also done my research on the bracelet correctly the 1116 with 75 end links would date from the late 60s and is still a saught after one as it fits slightly later Speedmasters and the Seamaster 300s from around the same date.

If the case has been polished I think it must have been done very sympathetically as the facets and edges are still very crisp. What makes you think it has been?

 

[qbert1964]

Passover

Pushers are not original, crown could be changed too

Cheers for the info, now I've done more research I think you are right about the crown and pushers..

 

[ndgal]

Q qbert1964

Thanks for the reply and sorry for not responding sooner. I was doing more research myself to work out how to tell the pushers and crown are service ones. So if I've got this right, the original pushers would have had wider tubes and the original crown would have had a chamfered underside?

At least the parts including the hands seem to be old but original service parts. If I've also done my research on the bracelet correctly the 1116 with 75 end links would date from the late 60s and is still a saught after one as it fits slightly later Speedmasters and the Seamaster 300s from around the same date.

If the case has been polished I think it must have been done very sympathetically as the facets and edges are still very crisp. What makes you think it has been?

You should now research the dial. Closely…

 

[ndgal]

Since a few have asked me about my comments regarding the dial on this example, I figured I would post this here as it seems no-one that has seen this thread has been able to spot the fake dial on the OP's watch.

First off, (In my book) the 105.012-65 reference did not come with a "Wide-T" dial, so whenever I see one, the Red lights immediately turn on.
The dial on this particular example is so off, that the "Wide-T's" are the least of its problems.

Let's first look at a "Narrow-T" dial, which in my opinion is the only correct dial for the 105.012-65 reference:



Now let's have a look at a "Wide-T" dial which only makes its appearance circa 3rd quarter of 1967, well into the 105.012-66 reference.



Now let's compare both the above dials to the one on the OP's watch:



There are many more tiny nuances that are not correct to any known original AML/321 dial variant, but let's only focus on applied logo and the
OMEGA
Speedmaster
PROFESSIONAL

Here they are side by side:



You'll notice that the shape of the metal logo and the OMEGA Speedmaster PROFESSIONAL print on the fake dial are completely off.
Without examining the dial outside of the watch, I cannot tell if this is a variant of a later Luminova service dial that has been 'converted' into a Tritium dial, or just a (decent?) effort at a fake. Whatever it may be, this dial has no connection to this watch nor to the 105.012-65 reference in general.

And just for the fun of it, let's have a look at what I refer to as a "Specimen Example" of a 105.012-65 in almost unworn condition.
Once you've owned or handled one of these in this condition. Near new and as close to 'factory fresh' as possible (55 years later), it becomes very easy to decipher any other example that is lesser-then, or does not match up to the specification.

Edited: Sep 30, 2021

 

[joe band]

drool