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Help needed: Omega "Seamaster De Ville" genuine or FAKE/refurbished?

  1. hoipolloi Vintage Omega Connoisseur Apr 8, 2017

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    T Swiss Made T is ok with your dial because it is a tritium dial. The problem is Swiss Made is too far apart (?)
     
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  2. michael22 Apr 8, 2017

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    Whether original or not, it is a handsome dial on a practical watch.
    For a potential safe queen, the originality argument is important. For a watch your wife will wear daily, classy looks are more important. IMO.
    Everybody's attitude can be different on this topic.
     
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  3. JazzBox Apr 8, 2017

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    Yes I completely agree with you, I'm not a collector nor am I an expert, I'm just an enthusiast and I'm planning to buy a similar watch for me with a black refurbished dial, since I was not able to find it genuine, at least at the price I can spend.

    I have no problem to buy a watch with a repainted dial, but if I buy a genuine one I don't like to have a refurbished one instead.
    The seller said "original factory dial" and I have no reason to believe he want to sell something wrong, because he sells other watches with declared "refurbished dial". He was very kind and professional and made me also a little discount.

    My investigation started just for the sake of knowing what I bought, since after I bought it I was not able to find the reference on Omega's website (now thank to you on this forum I found it) and I read a lot of bad stories about watches :)
     
  4. michael22 Apr 8, 2017

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    I find the Omega site hard to search. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong, but nothing pops out easily when I search it.
    I agree with your "get what I pay for " attitude.
     
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  5. JazzBox Apr 8, 2017

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    Here my dial, hoping the perspective is better :)
     
    IMG_9797.jpg
  6. JazzBox Apr 8, 2017

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    I also see some little differences around 9 and 10 o'clock on your dial, not big like mine, but noticeable. Could it be the perspective or there is a little difference?
    I ask you, because I just hope to discover that my dial is genuine and those minor things are ok :)

    Thank you for your help!
     
    omega.jpg
    Edited Apr 9, 2017
  7. JazzBox Apr 9, 2017

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    At the end do you think it is a genuine watch or a refurbished one?
    (if someone has an advice to open it without risks I can try to look inside)
     
  8. michael22 Apr 9, 2017

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    Since it is in your possesion, take it to an Omega watchmaker & ask his opinion. If you can.
     
  9. j.allen Apr 9, 2017

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    I honestly cannot tell. It can help to look under high magnification at how uniform the markers are. Besides the spacing which can look wonky in a photo, you can look at the length of each marker as well as the corners. They should be nice and square.

    The corners do not look square like in the last example, but the photos are blurry.
     
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  10. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 10, 2017

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    It's a genuine watch that may have had the dial restored (I may comment on this aspect later).

    Assuming for the moment that your watch is a re-dial.

    To the Serious Watch Collector, this watch would not be attractive, due in part, to the dial not looking exactly the way it left the factory over 50 years ago. We all have the right to be pedantic perfectionists when it comes to collecting.

    To the Vintage Watch Enthusiast, this is a quality brand in a well admired style and on appearance alone it would appeal to a vintage enthusiast.

    So, the question is, are you a Serious Watch Collector, or a Vintage Watch Enthusiast?

    If you are heading into SWC territory, this example could be considered as your "Learner Driver" experience.
    If you're simply a VWE, enjoy the watch for what is, not what it isn't.

    Cheers

    Jim
     
  11. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 10, 2017

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    I've had a good look at the OPs dial and conclude that it has been restored, re-inked or re-dialed.

    My pointers are:

    The Big curve "S" and the dropped tail "r", not a combination I've seen on Seamaster De Villes.

    The word group "Seamaster De Ville is too high on the dial, it should be positioned lower, at least on or below a line between the tops of the 4 and 8 indices. As it is, the lower section of the dial looks empty.

    The "T Swiss Made T" is spaced too wide and the word group is not centred proportionally beneath the 6 index.

    I realise that off centre shots, crystal distortion and lighting can all have an effect so I've only commented on what to me is obvious.

    As previously said, it's not the end of the world and unless the OP is a serious collector I don't think it matters.
     
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  12. JazzBox Apr 10, 2017

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    I live in a small village and the nearest Omega reseller is 150 km from my house. I'll do it as soon as possible, but in the meantime I want to be sure I bought what the seller said... and if it is not 100% original I want to ask a refund, maybe partial, but a refund, since I don't want to pay for something different from the description.
     
  13. JazzBox Apr 10, 2017

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    I'm just an enthusiast, but I don't like to pay for anything other than what I bought.
    The seller sold it as 100% genuine: https://www.vintage-portfolio.com/en/shop/verkauft/wonderful-omega-seamaster-de-ville-vintage/

    I have no problem to buy a refurbished one since I don't have to resell it, but I wan't be mocked... if redialed I will ask a partial refund.
     
    IMG_9759.JPG
  14. JazzBox Apr 10, 2017

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    It's a beautiful watch that my wife is more then happy to wear: the only problem is that it was sold as original and I don't like to be fooled :)
     
  15. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 10, 2017

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    The watch is original and the dial is most likely original but has been re-painted. It's not a huge deal.

    Just some advice from me based on experience.

    The seller did not state that the dial was totally original, nor did he state it was a re-dial (very astute of him).
    He did however, provide clear well lit photographs as part of the description so he may argue against any refund.
    Due to his past relationship with this place, he may also tell you we're all a bunch of uneducated idiots.

    My final word on this one, forget about the detail and enjoy the watch.
     
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  16. michael22 Apr 10, 2017

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    If my wife were happy, I would just be happy with that.
    Some battles have too little to be gained.
     
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  17. JazzBox Apr 10, 2017

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    Thank you JimInOz!

    Of course she enjoy it, I also like it very much :)
    I just don't understand why he sold it without declaring that it was repainted. I would buy it the same... I'm thinking to buy a black Omega Semaster DeVille refurbished, so you can figure it...

    Do you think at least I paid a fair price? (600 € shipping included)? How much a watch like that would worth?

    Thank you very much for your help!
     
  18. JazzBox Apr 10, 2017

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    You're right!
    Let's go ahead :)

    Thank you Michael!
     
  19. ConElPueblo Apr 10, 2017

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    You cannot answer a question like that. For most serious collectors, the value is very low. For many others who are not concerned about total originality, it might be good value.

    I'll add that the seller (even knowing his history on here and his general practise...) could be unaware of the dial restoration.



    On a different note: I find it sad that he's still in business and apparently doing well :(
     
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  20. JazzBox Apr 10, 2017

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    Wow.... I was thinking to buy also a black-refurbished one from him, especially since he's a ProSeller / Trusted Seller since 2014 on Chrono24.... :/